Tums
(2500+ posts)
01/22/08 01:37 AM
Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

This is a pretty blunt piece with some first hand quotes by Rod Babers.

While I really truly believe Chris would get a HUGE standing O from our crowd (like he did during his final 50-20 assraping of aggy, as well as the CB win over LSU), it's hard to argue that the Chris Simms era wasn't a pretty low point in terms of Longhorn fan class. I've never been more embarrassed by stuff happening off the field as I was that night in Texas Stadium.
The Link


MikeUT00
(5000+ posts)
01/22/08 01:50 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

very interesting read. thanks for posting. Simms definitely didn't deserve the shit that he took. no longhorn does, win or lose. i'm rooting for him to make a comeback.

TheSheriffIsNEAR
(500+ posts)
01/22/08 01:54 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

Can't blame him one bit.

Black Ninja
(25+ posts)
01/22/08 02:02 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

Damn shame. Chris Simms was actually one of my favorite longhorns of all time, and that was mainly due to the fact that he seemed like a good dude. Hell I wouldn't have known how to handle the situation if it were me trying to decide who to start. I think the world of both Simms and Applewhite and respect both of their abilities.

It's a little f'd up that Applewhite coming back as a coach is bringing all the stupid shit up again. And what I mean by that is for better or worse all that mess is in the past and there it should stay.

Texan
(100+ posts)
01/22/08 02:13 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

Anyone that knew Simms roots hard for him.

I know exactly which POS frat that was as well and also know they acted like the biggest pussy's in the world when Simms confronted them. F those MF'ers.

UT94Horn
(250+ posts)
01/22/08 02:40 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

Simms always showed a lot of heart. I'll always root for him. Can't wait until he makes a comeback.

Hook 'em Chris!



jimmyjazz
(10,000+ posts)
01/22/08 03:21 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

I take a lot of crap from friends for my support of Simms, and I've never quite understood why. To me, it's not an either/or thing. Both Simms and Applewhite worked their asses off for UT, and neither deserves anything but respect. I thought the coaching staff made a good decision in a tough situation, and could have been easily justified going the other way.

I think it sucks that Chris hasn't come back to Austin. He should come "home". Most fans recognize him for what he is -- a talented kid who has always handled himself with class.

Ironically, the same could be said for Major Applewhite. Go figure.

lnghrn005
(250+ posts)
01/22/08 03:27 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

When Major takes over as HC he's gonna hire Chris to be his assistant HC/OC/QB coach.


lnghrn005
(250+ posts)
01/22/08 03:29 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

One thing you can't question about Simms was his toughness. Playing with a ruptured spleen. I believe he played most of his SR season with a broken finger or messed up throwing hand or something or at least played against Nebraska after hurting his hand. He got a bad rep as a guy who shrunk in big games when really the entire team did and the coaching staff didn't really put the team in position to win those big games.

mandingo
(2500+ posts)
01/22/08 03:32 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

There are some folks 'round here who should be f'ing ashamed of the shit they heaped on Chris Simms.

Tandoori Horn
(100+ posts)
01/22/08 04:08 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

Simms had every chance to help his cause if he didn't fold against OU repeatedly, not to mention the CU debacle at Texas Stadium. Granted some fans go too far, but all he had to do was "drive the bus" and he couldn't even do that right.

jimmyjazz
(10,000+ posts)
01/22/08 04:16 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

In reply to:

Simms had every chance to help his cause if he didn't fold against OU repeatedly




How exactly did he "fold" against OU when Brett Robin blew his blocking assignment against Evil Roy Williams?

longerhorn
(500+ posts)
01/22/08 04:44 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

Throwing beers at his car, posting his phone number online where I'm sure he received some fucked up messages as well as e mails, is going ridiculouly fucking far. I also remember the misspelled simms sucks on a mopac south overpass column. Sad.

Black Ninja
(25+ posts)
01/22/08 08:32 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

In reply to:

Simms had every chance to help his cause if he didn't fold against OU repeatedly



No.

How's bout the whole damn team had a chance to help their cause against OU repeatedly. Now if it had been the case that Simms blew his blocking assignment to block for himself that's one thing. If Simms had blew his blocking assignments blocking for the running game that'd be another.

I find it un-FREAKIN-believable that people still don't realize the MAIN reason we had no sucess against OU those years was because WE COULDN'T BLOCK!

DoobieWah
(1000+ posts)
01/22/08 09:02 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

Chris Simms was always a standup guy who did his best. I doubt that the same can be said of most of his detractors.

I was always a fan, and remain one.

As I've said here before, we were damned lucky to have both he and Major.











BeatYaEasyEasy
(500+ posts)
01/22/08 09:02 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

If Chris had a jersey that said "McCoy" or "Applewhite" on the back, his performances at Nebraska, and I think K-State, in 2002 would be considered to al-time greats. In addition, he and that '02 team were in a position to win the Big 12 South had our defense not folded at Lubbock.

Horns11
(2500+ posts)
01/22/08 09:07 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

I've always said the same... that if his name with Bob Smith from Blue Collar Town, USA, or something like that, there's no way he's booed as much. He was an excellent QB who had just as many (if not more) great games than other recent QBs.

And the real reasons for Major's benchings (bum knees) always got swept under the rug, especially when Simms would throw a pick.

Nivek
(2500+ posts)
01/22/08 09:27 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

Well, I liked Simms and thought he did a great job while here. He represented Texas well, in spite of many douche bag fans.

Hook em Chris!




















Beef
(250+ posts)
01/22/08 09:36 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

It still pisses me off when I think about how the Texas fans treated Simms. I knew him very well and he was one of the most down to earth guys on the team. I have been in tons of fights supporting Chris over the years and I still take up for him today. One of his faults was he wanted to win so bad and I believe he tried to do much at times to make that happen. He worked his ass off for the University of Texas and was a great player.

Hook'em Gunslinger and good luck next year tearing up the NFL.

Handler XIII
(1000+ posts)
01/22/08 09:42 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

Simms is one of my favorite Horns. People forget how landing him really helped our recruiting. Also, we were in the Big 12 Champ game because of him!

Texanne
(10,000+ posts)
01/22/08 09:46 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

I never did understand how some people could only have room in their hearts for one kid. Didn't they BOTH wear burnt orange?

Chris Simms. I love that kid to this day.


FWHORN
(2500+ posts)
01/22/08 09:48 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

Chris took more crap than any player in recent history and handled it with class and that is something that he will always be remembered for, being a class kid. He is the third winningest QB in Texas history but you wouldnt know it from the way some people choose to remember him. While he definitely had a personal meltdown against CU what QB besides Vince hasnt had one of those games and the OU losses were on the team and particularly the O-line and a lack of any running game at all. People mconveniently forget that Major blew out not one but both knees and had almost no mobility by his senior year, he was a sitting duck back there and no revisionist history will change that. I think it would be great if Chris came back and got the standing ovation reception he deserves at some home game.

doylehargraves
(1000+ posts)
01/22/08 09:55 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

In reply to:

I think it would be great if Chris came back and got the standing ovation reception he deserves at some home game.




More the reason not to have him come back for a home game. There's still a lot of assholes who don't like the guy, and I don't know that it would necessarily be an overwhelmingly warm reception. Sad, but true.


HuckleberryModerator
(1000+ posts)
01/22/08 10:04 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

In reply to:

While he definitely had a personal meltdown against CU what QB besides Vince hasnt had one of those games and the OU losses were on the team and particularly the O-line and a lack of any running game at all.




Even Vince had some meltdown games (Missouri 2004, A&M 2005 to some extent, etc.). The difference is that the rest of the team kicked much more ass in 2004 and 2005.

It reminds me of the main logical problem the Simms-bashers have: they only apply the "it's the quarterback's fault" theory to Simms. Kansas State 1999? Nope. If it's all the quarterback, someone explain to me how Oklahoma shut us out in 2004 with Vince f'n Young playing quarterback for us. That was followed up by the terrible Missouri offensive showing that year.

jt09
(5000+ posts)
01/22/08 10:21 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

I'll never understand the bashing of our own players, especially in public. I've grumbled about some of our less pigmented linebackers in the past, but never mean spirited and never louder than the next person being able to hear me.

I remember some jackhole popping off LOUDLY from several seats back about Simms his SR year. I gave him the evil eye once and when he kept going, I launched into the whole "How about you not talk shit about OUR players. 20 year old kids busting their ass so YOU can puff out your chest to your co-workers all week long about something you had NOTHING to do w/." Closest I've ever been to getting in a fight at DKR.

Mack handled the situation poorly, but the players did a GREAT job w/ a tough situation. Simms brought some SERIOUS star power to this program and he did the best he could. Did he have a bad game or two at really bad times? Sure, but Huck's right, there were MANY other players that dropped the ball in those as well. How can Chris be blamed when Evil Roy drops out of the sky and lands on him in the end zone?

Hook Em Chris and come home bud!!

Eastwood22
(100+ posts)
01/22/08 10:44 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

In reply to:

Mack handled the situation poorly, but the players did a GREAT job w/ a tough situation.




That is something that is rarely brought up. Mack did a terrible job managing that situation.

Any guy that plays 3 quarters of football with a ruptured spleen and doesn't bitch about it is awesome in my book. The fact that he was also a longhorn is

mandingo
(2500+ posts)
01/22/08 10:57 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

In reply to:

I've always said the same... that if his name with Bob Smith from Blue Collar Town, USA, or something like that, there's no way he's booed as much. He was an excellent QB who had just as many (if not more) great games than other recent QBs.

And the real reasons for Major's benchings (bum knees) always got swept under the rug, especially when Simms would throw a pick.




Great post.

Sums the whole thing up.

Chris was (and still is) a convenient scapegoat for simpleminded folk who rely on such to get through the day.

PeeJay
(250+ posts)
01/22/08 11:15 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

It's strange how the players' take on the situation was diametrically opposite to the fans' take. Chris was close to being the most popular player on the team and Major was not very popular at all.

Black Ninja
(25+ posts)
01/22/08 11:18 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

In reply to:

I've grumbled about some of our less pigmented linebackers in the past



That sir, was hilarious!

Black Ninja
(25+ posts)
01/22/08 11:20 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

Is what PeeJay speak of true? I've never been close enough to the situation to know.

crash_davis
(1000+ posts)
01/22/08 11:29 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

chris simms is one of my fav horns. and i too like applewhite. admiration for the 2 aren't mutually exclusive.

come home chris. let us show you our gratitude and start the healing.

chris simms.


jt09
(5000+ posts)
01/22/08 11:34 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

In reply to:

Is what PeeJay speak of true?




Not from the players I know. One fo them posts regularly here, maybe he'll chime in.



On another note: How nice of Chip Brown to get his article from his radio show. Every Brooks quote in that story was on 1530 recently (can't remember the exact day).

Truck's Son
(500+ posts)
01/22/08 11:34 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

I really hope he gots another shot in the NFL.

I was in high school during the Simms-Applewhite shit. My best friend and I would get into arguments every fucking day taking up for Chris. That period of UT football seperated the bandwagon fans from the real fans more than any other period in recent memory, in my opinion.

BeatYaEasyEasy
(500+ posts)
01/22/08 11:37 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

Ditto, ninja, I never heard that either....elaborate, perhaps?

Mike_Tyson
(5000+ posts)
01/22/08 11:41 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

If Major had played over Simms people would have been screaming at Mack for not playing the cannon-armed and petigree future NFL QB.

Hook_This
(250+ posts)
01/22/08 11:50 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

In reply to:

I know exactly which POS frat that was as well and also know they acted like the biggest pussy's in the world when Simms confronted them. F those MF'ers.




Unless there was more than one confrontation, I can say that's not true. The whole episode I saw even had some of his teammates siding with "that POS frat".

Detective Shilala
(1000+ posts)
01/22/08 11:50 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

In reply to:

He got a bad rep as a guy who shrunk in big games when really the entire team did and the coaching staff didn't really put the team in position to win those big games.




Bingo!
It always amazes me how Simms bashers could never recall that Applewhite had many games with the same results: OU 2000... Cotton Bowl vs the piggies... '99 KSU game and the Big 12 C'ship game against NU when the offense got SKUNKED....

True, Major had some great games too. But so did Simms. (Another aspect of Simms that the bashers could never recall for some reason.)

All teams had to do back then was blitz us into oblivion, and the O-line would break down and verything went to shit from there. Different QB, same results. Any observer not blinded by irrational hatred would call this a system issue. Not a Simms issue.

Texan
(100+ posts)
01/22/08 11:55 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

What Pee Jay said is absolutely the truth.

I'm not saying that teammates disliked Major but Chris was best friends with just about all of our impact players during that period.

And you have no clue what you're talking about if you think teammates were siding with the Frat.

JOSEYWALES66
(250+ posts)
01/22/08 11:58 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

In reply to:

I'm not saying that teammates disliked Major but Chris was best friends with just about all of our impact players during that period.




From what I heard from some players, this is true.


PFD
(1000+ posts)
01/22/08 11:58 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

In reply to:

I find it un-FREAKIN-believable that people still don't realize the MAIN reason we had no sucess against OU those years was because WE COULDN'T BLOCK!




Because most people who've never played football don't understand that the game is largely decided on the line of scrimmage.

Hook_This
(250+ posts)
01/22/08 11:59 AM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

In reply to:

And you have no clue what you're talking about if you think teammates were siding with the Frat.




Only stating what I saw that night. There was obviously a division on that team.

kgp
(1000+ posts)
01/22/08 12:01 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

Thanks for all the hard work, Chris! You have always been a class act, and I am proud to call you a fellow alumnus. Don't let some upset "fans" distract you from the fact that there are an awful lot of us 'Horns who hold you in very high regard, as we have done and will.

OrangeRB
(250+ posts)
01/22/08 12:06 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

With the exception of VY, I had more confidence in Chris than with any quarterback Texas has ever had and I've been watching every single Texas game since 1961. He was one of the most talented kids to ever have played at Texas and losses won't change that. Everyone loses. Tough guy and one who represented Texas admirably. I wish he would come back and be introduced at a game so I could say 'thank you' again.



Heretic Horn
(25+ posts)
01/22/08 12:10 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

This was the darkest chapter of Longhorn football in my lifetime. I am still ashamed by how he was treated by some "fans". Simms handled a tough situation a hell of a lot better than I would. He's got my most sincere respect and gratitude.

gardere_owns_OU
(2500+ posts)
01/22/08 12:14 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

i liked both simms and major. i wouldn't say simms was one of my favorites. it wasn't nothing against him personally or the player. i just have some other favorites.

no doubt i cursed when he messed up. i curse when anyone messes up.

i love chris and i hope the best for him. i'd love to see him back out on the field sundays.

hook'em Chris... damn pity on how he was treated and coached here.

Detective Shilala
(1000+ posts)
01/22/08 12:24 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

In reply to:

I wish he would come back and be introduced at a game so I could say 'thank you' again.




I agree with every one of your sentiments, But I hope he does not come back to be introduced at game day. Unfortunately there are too many sorry-ass ignorant "fans" who would feel the need to boo him and it would spoil it.



ADMIRALSTOCKDALE
(2500+ posts)
01/22/08 12:26 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

i wish there were a way for longhorn nation to show this guy (siimms) how much we appreciate him. always loved the guy and felt that the coaches really put he and major in too tough a situation.
chip brown needs a new hairstylist.

UTeed
(1000+ posts)
01/22/08 12:28 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

There are no 'buts' when it comes to a kid who came in and gave it his all for the Longhorns. I didn't get it then and I still don't. Very few players would have taken that kind of abuse and stayed all four years.
We should be talking about how proud we are that a Longhorn has had a career as a NFL QB and how we hope he makes it back, instead of defending him from a bunch of chowder heads who don't seem to know better.

Tex Pete
(5000+ posts)
01/22/08 12:41 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

1. I am still amazed that some people cannot separate their feelings about the situation from their feelings about the players involved. I am convinced that there are fans who hate Chris or who hate Major over their feelings about that QB controversy.

2. Neither Major or Chris played perfect football. To read accounts on this thread, or accounts on threads about Major, you might think they walked on water, or that neither of them ever threw bad picks. They were both good QBs, and they both made normal mistakes.

3. If a fan still supports Chris or Major, they do not have to be labeled "pumper" or "hater." It is possible, actually I think it's necessary, for true fans to support and root for both of them.

4. I think Chris' treatment here is a bit overblown. Don't get me wrong-- I am not condoning anything negative that happened. I am just saying that it wasn't like people booed him or harrassed him throughout his tenure at QB. From the conversations I overheard at the Big XII Champ. game, I think most people were booing Mack for putting Chris back out into a bad situation. We have had QBs before who were savaged by the fans(see Todd Dodge).

Still unacceptable, but Texas fans have booed for decades. I really don't think that will ever change, no matter who is under center, or who is calling the plays. There's a reason people say the backup QB at Texas is the most popular player on the team. Even Vince wasn't immune to that sentiment.

5. We, the fanbase, need to get over it. Simms and Applewhite have not worn the burnt orange for several years. There is absolutely no reason there should still be division within our ranks over them. We need to shut up about it and move on.

Maybe Chris should come back, and we could honor Major and Chris on the field together before a game. That way no one would boo.

Jive_Turkey
(10,000+ posts)
01/22/08 12:46 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

The worst part of the whole Simms/Applewhite situation to me is that it forced division amongst the fans. We all bleed burnt orange and wanted the Horns to win, but it's like you had to choose sides. And when you supported one QB, you had to tear down the other QB to state your case. Every Major Cultist would talk about how Simms choked in big games and threw untimely INTs. Every Simms supporter would say how Major had bum knees and had the Apple Turnover game against K-State and lost easy games to NC State and Stanford. It was really nasty.

A lot of it could have been avoided had Simms redshirted his freshman year, but that obviously didn't happen, in part because Adam Dunn left (I think that's who it was).

Chris's time here could have been different if GD would have let him air out the ball and play vertical football. Those OU games were SO painful. The way to beat OU back then (as aggy showed) was to test the secondary. We hardly ever did that even though we had Simms and the Big 3.

The second half of the aggy game in 2000 was probably the highlight of Simms' time here. That is what our offense should have been doing every game. Reverses, stop and go bombs, deep curls. They were on absolute fire that day. Even the Holiday Bowl against Oregon that year was a shootout. If not for some dropped balls by Roy and BJ, Chris would have led a great comeback.

Man, that was a crazy time.

femalefanatic
(25+ posts)
01/22/08 12:52 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

i also always supported Chris. The way he handled himself with all the non-stop, cruel criticism was awesome. I was so ashamed of some of our fans, changing 'CHRISSIE' after a game. Longhorns have more class than that.

Hook 'em, Chris!!!

Tex Pete
(5000+ posts)
01/22/08 12:55 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

In reply to:

I was so ashamed of some of our fans, changing 'CHRISSIE' after a game


I have never heard a Longhorn fan call him that. That is an Aggie nickname.

Uncle Rico
(2500+ posts)
01/22/08 12:56 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

simms took a lot of shit and handled it better than 99% of the people posting here.

HuckleberryModerator
(1000+ posts)
01/22/08 12:56 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

Then you wore headphones to the games he played in.

femalefanatic
(25+ posts)
01/22/08 01:02 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

I agree on Chip Brown's hair -- too 80's for me!!

gardere_owns_OU
(2500+ posts)
01/22/08 01:02 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

tex_pete, gardere even called him chrissie at some banquet. i wanted to change my name to gardere_fucked_up

Texan
(100+ posts)
01/22/08 01:03 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

Hook This - I'm not sure what you saw 'that night' and we may be discussing different instances, but if a couple of walkons took the frats side (wouldn't shock me as almost any UT player in a frat was a walkon) that hardly constitutes a 'division on the team' - I would be absolutely SHOCKED if any player that matterred (ie played regularly) would not have had Simms back in a heartbeat.

Furthermore, regarding the whole controversy, I would say that if you polled those around the program daily before Major's SR season (ie players, coaches, and all staff) over 90% would have backed the decision to start Simms. I'm not going to go into all the details why and it's nothing against Major, but it wouldn't even have been close.

That being said, I'm damn glad Major is back as a coach and I think it was a great hire.

Tex Pete
(5000+ posts)
01/22/08 01:05 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

I stand corrected.

I still think the fanbase needs to move on. Threads like this make us look bad-- how many years after the fact?

HuckleberryModerator
(1000+ posts)
01/22/08 01:12 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

In reply to:

I still think the fanbase needs to move on. Threads like this make us look bad-- how many years after the fact?




You think this thread makes us look bad? How about the fact that one of our former players was treated like shit to the point that he hasn't gotten over it yet? He refuses to comment on it because he's a class guy, but he refuses to make an appearance here because he knows that we have fans that will treat him like shit.

It's not this thread that makes us look bad.

mandingo
(2500+ posts)
01/22/08 01:13 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

It's not this thread that makes us look bad.

It's the reprehensible treatment of one of our own that makes us look bad.




EDIT: Damn, Huck...that was fast!

Hmmm....great minds...

Bevo04
(< 25 posts)
01/22/08 01:18 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

In reply to:

Chris's time here could have been different if GD would have let him air out the ball and play vertical football.




Bingo.

Tex Pete
(5000+ posts)
01/22/08 01:21 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

In reply to:

It's not this thread that makes us look bad.

It's the reprehensible treatment of one of our own that makes us look bad.


I don't disagree that some of what went on back then was bad, but neither has played for us in over five years. At some point, we have to move on. Wringing hands over the past accomplishes nothing.


Bevo04
(< 25 posts)
01/22/08 01:26 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

I still have a Chris Simms autographed football in a display case sitting proudly in my room. Says, "To Bevo04 Best of Luck Hook em Chris Simms #1." I had a small class my freshman year with Chris and he was one of the nicest people I've ever met. Invited my to his Jester Dorm room so that he could autograph my football.

Beef
(250+ posts)
01/22/08 01:36 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

There was no or very little division on the team. I will agree that over 90% supported the decision to start Chris. He worked his tail off and wanted to win at all cost. It is funny how peoples opinion of him change after they meet him or talk to someone who spent a lot of time around him. I know what I saw with my own eyes and still defend Chris to this day.

In reply to:

Chris's time here could have been different if GD would have let him air out the ball and play vertical football.




Or maybe it was Mack Brown that handcuffed GD in those games. Ask yourself one question. Why wouldn't an Offense Coordinator want to let it fly and open it up?

007 373 5963
(1000+ posts)
01/22/08 01:44 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

In reply to:

Chris's time here could have been different if GD would have let him air out the ball and play vertical football. Those OU games were SO painful. The way to beat OU back then (as aggy showed) was to test the secondary. We hardly ever did that even though we had Simms and the Big 3.




thinking about having the ball at midfield right before halftime in 2002 still makes me vomit.

HoosierHorn
(5000+ posts)
01/22/08 01:45 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

Major, Chris, Chance, Colt... they've all accomplished the same thing - QB of the Texas Longhorns under Mack Brown.

Only one QB has actually accomplished more under Mack. So, I don't get all the Chris bashing or Colt / Major loving. It's obviously not based on achievement.

I understand the love for the other guy.

Statalyzer
(10,000+ posts)
01/22/08 01:48 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

In reply to:

And the real reasons for Major's benchings (bum knees) always got swept under the rug, especially when Simms would throw a pick.




Exactly. It's amazing how many people still think Mack just benched Major for no reason or assert that Phil had anything to do with it. Major blew out his knee twice, both serious injuries, and they both took him awhile to get back to 100% from.

Detective Shilala
(1000+ posts)
01/22/08 02:25 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

In reply to:

It's not this thread that makes us look bad.

It's the reprehensible treatment of one of our own that makes us look bad.




Yep. And TexPete, its not as if anyone else out there cares or notices what happens on a message board so this thread says nothing about us to the outside world, really. So why can't we look back on something negative and dispassionately critique ourselves as a fanbase? Wouldn't the fact that we can do this be considered a good thing anyway?

brntorng
(1000+ posts)
01/22/08 02:25 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

I never understood the criticism of Chris and continue to support him and Major to this day. They're both outstanding young men and deserve only the best from Longhorn fans. Good luck to both of them in their careers.

Tex Pete
(5000+ posts)
01/22/08 02:34 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

In reply to:

why can't we look back on something negative and dispassionately critique ourselves as a fanbase?


Because it's been done over and over and over and over ad nauseum for the last 5+ years. It always immediately becomes a pissing match that solves nothing.

There is not a single person who thinks the situation was handled correctly(by the staff or fans), but we should support both men and move on.



Detective Shilala
(1000+ posts)
01/22/08 02:37 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

In reply to:

It's amazing how many people still think Mack just benched Major for no reason or assert that Phil had anything to do with it. Major blew out his knee twice, both serious injuries, and they both took him awhile to get back to 100% from.




Too true, its almost as if some people have a giant hole in their memory about the circumstances Chris got to start under.
If I remember correctly, Major blew his knee out in a tough game against Tech. Chris came in and the team held together for a tough win. Then Chris put together some very nice games against the rest of our regular season opponents. Until the Holiday bowl vs Oregon, in which Chris did everything he needed to to win that game. But our receivers were dropping everything. By that time, who in their right mind would bench him. Not even the most irrational Simms hater had hindsight like that.

The Horn Identity
(500+ posts)
01/22/08 02:44 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

OK, I'm probably gonna get killed for posting this, but critiques of Simms (back in the day) were not completely unfounded. While I certainly don't condone the fans bourish behavior and Chris should be recognized for his accomplishments, he did not have his best performances in some of the 'biggest' games (namely OU, CCGs, and Bowl Games).

UT 14 - OU 63 (2000) - Simms 11-23 for 67 yards and an INT. Applewhite didn't fare much better 9-18 for 98 yards an an INT. (Note that in the previous year Applewhile led UT to a 38-24 victory on a 22-47 for 328 yards with 3 TDs and no INTs.)

UT 14 - OU 3 (2001) - Simms was 24-42 for 198 with 4 INTs and 5 sacks.

UT 24 - OU 35 (2002) - Simms was 12-26 for 156 yards with 3 INTs and 4 sacks.

UT 30 - Oregon 35 (2000) - Simms was 17-33 for 245 with 4 INTs and 3 sacks.

UT 37 - CU 39 (2001) - Simms was 9-17 for 130 yards with 3 INTs before Applewhite nearly brought us back on a 15-25 for 240 yards with no INTs and 2 TDs. That followed by the sensational Holiday bowl game.

I will say that Simms seemed to have the Aggies number. And, he did go out with a nice win against LSU in the Cotton Bowl.

But like it or not, a UT QB is largely remembered for how they played in the big games. Few people remember the games that we are supposed to win, but you can become a legend for the big wins (e.g. Gardere, Applewhite, James Brown).

Unfortunately, Simms is remembered for just the opposite including the infamous CU collapse, which was juxtaposed with a brillant performance by Applewhite.

Black Ninja
(25+ posts)
01/22/08 02:45 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

In reply to:

Chris's time here could have been different if GD would have let him air out the ball and play vertical football.



Dude I feel your frustration...I REALLY DO!! However, ask yourself this question. Would the OL back in those day been able to provide any QB that type of time???

The funny thing about the OL is that this year's version as underwhelming as it was compared to 2005, was probably better as a UNIT than anything we had back during the Applewhite/Simms years. I'll be the first to tell you I have a crap memory, so maybe the lines were better than I remembered. But my question is would the OL and RB pass protection been able to stand up to the OU defense on trick plays or even 7 step drop type plays???

If the answer is YES, then yeah you can throw your stones at the coaching staff. If the answer is NO, then it would appear that the coaching staff was trying to mitigate a team WEAKNESS and find another way to move the ball.

The amazing part about this all is that even NOW you see that there's still a lot of emotion around this issue. Rumors about each player, about how the team felt about each player, what one player didn't do, what the other didn't do.

Damn, if anything this saga/era/whatever the hell you want to call it, is a PRIME example of the fact that TEAMS win or lose football games NOT INDIVIDUALS.

Detective Shilala
(1000+ posts)
01/22/08 02:56 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

In reply to:

But like it or not, a UT QB is largely remembered for how they played in the big games.




BOTH QBs had a number of wins in big games.

True, OU had our number.
But the problem is that a big game is only a big game for UT until after UT has woin said game, at which time its just another win.

If we had lost to NU or KSU in 2002, UW in the holiday bowl, etc, those would make the your list of big games we lost.

We won, so they no longer count as big games.

JOSEYWALES66
(250+ posts)
01/22/08 03:00 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

In reply to:

I will say that Simms seemed to have the Aggies number. And, he did go out with a nice win against LSU in the Cotton Bowl.




So you don't count those as big wins? Why, because they don't support your argument?



Handler XIII
(1000+ posts)
01/22/08 03:13 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

In reply to:

UT 14 - OU 63 (2000) - Simms 11-23 for 67 yards and an INT. Applewhite didn't fare much better 9-18 for 98 yards an an INT. (Note that in the previous year Applewhile led UT to a 38-24 victory on a 22-47 for 328 yards with 3 TDs and no INTs.)




Applewhite started this game and I believe it was like 28-0 or 35-0 when Simms came in. I miss the good ole days that my dad talks about when Texas fans were known as being smart.
Also, his senior year I do remember 2 of those INT's were on his receivers. Shanahan turned outside vs. inside on a curl and BJ let a ball bounce off of his numbers right into the hands of an OU defender.

hornv
(100+ posts)
01/22/08 03:14 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

No need to post Chris' or Major's bad games, they both had a number of them. They both had some great games too. That is the point. Effectively they were the same productivity wise, but our fanbase fellates one and villifies the other. It is not fair and it is not right. We should appreciate both of them for what they were. Arguably the 2nd and 3rd best QBs at Texas since Street.

UTeed
(1000+ posts)
01/22/08 03:23 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

In reply to:

...but critiques of Simms (back in the day) were not completely unfounded.




Critiques of how Chris played never was the problem. We know and he knows the low and high points of his UT career. It was the unhinged personal attacks that were so shameful.
I hope in the near future that Chris feels comfortable about coming back to Austin on a regular basis. He would be a great ambassador for the program. Hopefully those few who felt such strange antagonism toward him will let it go.

Fatcat Alum
(2500+ posts)
01/22/08 03:25 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

Simms didn't look good against OU in 2000, 2001 or 2002 but Major didn't look any better when he was playing the majority of the 2000 game, and OU continued to kick our asses in 2003 and 2004 when Simms was no longer there. They were just better than us back then and I'm not sure if any QB other than 2005 Vince could have made a difference.

He wasn't great in the 2000 Oregon Holiday Bowl but he played good enough to win it at the end, Roy and BJ didn't make easy catches.

There is no getting around the fact he blew the 2001 Big XII game.

He did put in great performances on the road against KSU and NU in 2002, torched LSU in the Cotton Bowl, beat the crap out of the Aggies multiple times.

If he was from a small town in Texas he would be remembered as a very good QB who let one big game get away. It's a shame people can't get past his name and the fact he was started in front of Applewhite to see that.

Jive_Turkey
(10,000+ posts)
01/22/08 03:34 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

The problem with the Cultists is that they conveniently ignore Major's bad games and just credit him with allegedly great wins.

How many times did we go into OU undefeated with Major at QB? How did Major do in his first Big 12 title game against NU? How in the fuck did we lose to shit ass Stanford with Major in there? As pointed out above, Major started the OU game in 2000. How did he do in the bowl game against Arkansas? It's like those games are just figments of our imagination and never really happened, or shouldn't be held against Major.

I hate having to knock the guy, but that's what your forced to do when Cultists say that Simms sucked and Major should have started, as if that would have automatically meant Big 12 and national titles because, by God, Major always won the big game.

Bullshit.

Both guys played their asses off. Both gave it all for UT. Unfortunately, neither could lead us to the promised land like a certain #10. So it goes.

Texan
(100+ posts)
01/22/08 03:40 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

The Best move Coach Brown ever made was replacing Nunez. It didn't matter who was lining up against OU those 2 years - either didn't stand a chance. The intensity of practice was night and day when Mcwhorter arrived (the no blocking sled story under Nunez is 100% true) and it showed in O-Line play.

It's disgusting to look back at all the talent on the O-Lines those years that was wasted. There is no doubt in my mind we would have played for at least one if not multiple NC's back then had McWhorter been in charge of the O-line all of Mack's tenure.



UTIceberg
(1000+ posts)
01/22/08 04:03 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

If ousucks doesn't have the year they did in 2000 and win the MNC, I think this argument may have never occurred. That year really changed everything for Texas and to a lesser extent, the entire Big 12. With the sooners winning it all, it reminded everyone around here just how long since we had been National Champs. Coupled with the fact that, at the time (circa end of the year 1999), everyone though we were on the right track and were further along the ou with regards to resuming our "rightful place" among the games elite.

But then the 2000 season and the stakes got turned way up and the "schedule" got pushed forward dramatically. It was in 2001 that you first heard rumblings about firing GD or MB "if they didn't get it done pronto". That's when the pressure to win now and win big got taken to another level.

And for all the harmony now being espoused about the Chris/Major situation now on this thread, you should have seen Hornfans circa 2001. The back and forth was brutal.

Majorstheman
(100+ posts)
01/22/08 04:08 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

What Peejay said is completely true. I know, look at my handle...I am a huge Major fan. But I am also the biggest Chris Simms fan as well. That's why i actually have the NFL Sunday Ticket! So I can watch Bucs games.

Having said that, I was a student at UT from 2001-2005. I lived in Jester West my first year, and I was very good friends with a lot of the guys on the team. In fact, major flashback, Alfio Randal was one of my best friends. He lived on the same floor in JE as Chance Mock, Chris, Rod, Bo, all the guys. Everyone on that team loved Chris. I would hear how he regularly bought the team pizza--the entire team--he would order one day out of the week and always take it to meetings. He took his O-line to dinner. He even met with Cedric on Thursdays, if I remember correctly, so that they could have dinner. From what I gathered, guys liked Major, but he wasn't as 'popular' with the guys as Chris was.

They related to Chris and he was friends with all the guys. Anyone could talk to him. I remember seeing the guy help students move in--he would ride the elevator in JE and help people carry their bags on and off. He always signed things for fellow students, and at the Hex Rally, before the atm game here in Austin, he was the hugest draw. He couldn't even leave. The students totally boxed him in, asking for photos, sigs. Even Roy left. Roy told him there were too many people and he wasn't staying. Chris stayed for way over an hour. He never said no. He always took the photos, held babies even, and talked on cell phones to relatives.

I would go to EZ's a lot with the guys when he was at the Gables. Kyle Shanahan and Chris were always hanging out there. I remember one time this grown man came up to him and literally said how he thought he was awful. Chris sat there, listened to what he said, and he said "I am sorry you feel that way." This was after Bo and Rod were ready to fight the guy. He was always a class act. And I can't tell you how many times he paid for students at EZ's. One kid was there with a girl and his card got declined. Chris was watching from his table and he went and paid for their dinner. Who does that? And no, he wasn't looking for points. He is just genuinely a nice guy. He is one of the best guys I have ever met, regardless of the fact that he was a football player.

I would actively campaign to have him come to Austin this coming season on their bye week. You won't find a better representative of this University.

starchild
(100+ posts)
01/22/08 04:22 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

the way fans treated simms is truly unlike anything i've ever seen from texas fans. the whole thing was embarrassing. i got so sick of hearing, "mack promised chris' daddy that his son would start. blah, blah, blah." it was embarrassing and ignorant. i feel bad for the guy. he should feel welcome at the forty, but it's sad that that isn't the case. if someone thought that major should have been playing over chris, then he or she should have been upset with mack, not chris. let's hope that chris comes back someday to a warm welcome.

Truck's Son
(500+ posts)
01/22/08 04:24 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

Majorstheman: Thanks for the anecdotes. We really were/are lucky to have this guy represent UT.

I can only speak for myself and I know that if Chris were to come back and stand on the sidelines at DKR during one of the games, I would cheer my ass off for him. I have a feeling most, not all, but most of the fans would react the same way.

snow leopard27
(< 25 posts)
01/22/08 04:37 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

Looks like 99% of the replies on this thread are very positive and express a lot of admiration and good will towards Chris.

Any chance this represents the feelings of our greater fanbase?

I was always amazed by his ability to maintain such a classy demeanor under all the ridiculous insults and criticism; don't think I coul have done this.

I'm glad to hear his team mates thought so highly of him; I'm sure he knew this.

I have good friends today that still can't seem to compliment other QBs (Vince, Colt, et.) without throwing Chris under the bus.



Matterhorn
(500+ posts)
01/22/08 04:37 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

In reply to:

If Major had played over Simms people would have been screaming at Mack for not playing the cannon-armed and petigree future NFL QB.




I think most wanted the best chance to win, game in and game out. Pedigrees and cannon arms aside, I thought Applewhite when healthy, provided the best chance for Texas to win. Simms is a good guy and I couldn't understand the personal attacks on him, but I just didn't think as a player he had "it".
By 'it' I mean the intangibles to be a championship QB, I felt the same way about his dad. His dad had LT and Bravaro to bail him out.

crash_davis
(1000+ posts)
01/22/08 04:38 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

majorstheman's post echoes what i have heard about chris. actually, i'm getting pissed thinking about the haters.

chris, f the haters.

come home.

Extra Large
(500+ posts)
01/22/08 04:40 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

In reply to:

Hook This - I'm not sure what you saw 'that night' and we may be discussing different instances, but if a couple of walkons took the frats side (wouldn't shock me as almost any UT player in a frat was a walkon) that hardly constitutes a 'division on the team' -




What the fuck are you talking about? Now it was the walk-on frat boys that hated Chris? Are you just making crap up now?

Every player on that team would have ripped someone's throat out if they fucked with Chris.

There was no division on the team. There was no group of walk-on's that were in a fight or threw beer at Chris' car. It never happened.

The only walk-ons on that team that were in frats were Cullen Loeffler, Marcus Walther, and Billy Wright. They were all good friends with Chris. They are also really good people, and would not do that kind of crap to anyone.

Maybe you could pick another random group of walk-on's to throw some mud at. Maybe it was Ares Tsirtsis, Nathan Kaspar, and Chris Stroup. You know, those future military aviators really hated Chris Simms.

The entire team was good friends with Chris. Chis Simms was a great teammate and one of the hardest workers that I have ever met in my life. During conditionng drills, he refused to run with the backs and linebackers, and ran with the WR's and DB's instead. He often LED that group. After conditioning workouts, he would stay late and lead passing drills and 7 on 7 work.

Why does that matter? Beccause work is what other football players respect. There was not a player on that team that did not love and respect Chris. There was not a player on that team that did not know Chris Simms earned every second of playing time that he got. They also knew that they did not play perfect in every game and that mistakes happen.

The division was with the fans. Stupid idiot fans that look at Chris and see everything that they aren't and wish they were; A tall good looking kid from a good family with a ton of athletic talent. It's pretty easy for the 5'6" 140 pound POS frat boy who has to pay for friends to hate a guy like that.

What a joke.





Tex Pete
(5000+ posts)
01/22/08 04:45 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

Please let it die.

Handler XIII
(1000+ posts)
01/22/08 04:45 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

Extra Large:

Post of the year!

LotusBlade
(< 25 posts)
01/22/08 04:46 PM
Re: Chip Brown talks about Chris Simms

If it was a popularity contest Simms wins hands down. Anyone who has spent any significant time with either player will point out that Simms has Major beat in the charisma department.

Why did Mack Brown pick Simms over Applewhite?

He was the better choice. The fact is that Brown did a horrible job dealing with the situation and should have just come out and said it without worrying about saving face for Applewhite.

Anyone with any real understanding of football knows that Simms was a better choice. He lead the Bucs to the Playoffs! He was a legit NFL QB. He played most of a game with a ruptured spleen.

Major was not a NFL caliber QB. Major's biggest problem was he needed time to make the right throw. Simms didn't need as much time to make the same throw. Simms had a gun.

That's why Simms was picked over Applewhite. It's why Simms had a better record than Applewhite as starting QB.

In those days defenses would pressure and blitz us often and we were incapable of blocking them. Simms provided Texas the chance of throwing the ball more often for completions under those circumstances.

The 14-3 OU loss is horrible. However Simms made the correct read on that play. If Robins had made the block it would have been a TD. OU's Roy Williams gambled and blitzed even though it wasn't called. This left a man WIDE open who would not have been caught.

Problem is Roy Williams beat Robin and looked like The Man. Robin makes that block and Simms is a hero.

Simms is the 3rd winningest QB in Texas history.

It's about time ignorant fans were educated on just how great he was for this university.