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YoLaDu
5000+ posts
02/11/11 03:17 PM
Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History

you rarely see some of these revered painters get the treatment. Some serious art smack.

The Link

My favorite critique, Marc CHAGALL:

In reply to:

Just a downright lousy painter. No person in the history of the human species got as far with less talent in their chosen field than Marc Chagall. Any single thing that you might enjoy about one of his pictures is done much better by legions of minor masters, let alone the greats. Look, flying animals! Let's inspire three generations of ham-fisted amateur painters to believe that they never have to take a lesson in rendering, color or composition!







"Writing songs is like trying to squeeze a watermelon out of your ass. And you would think after having done it hundreds of times, the aperture would get wider and they'd just sort of start falling out of you. But it doesn't. - Nick Cave on songwriting

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Horns11Sponsor
5000+ posts
02/11/11 03:38 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

He's spot on about Modigliani... I always thought his crap looked like 6th grade self portraits with no concept of proportion.

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buckhorn
2500+ posts
02/11/11 04:45 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

Critic's have got to eat, too, I guess.

Nothing of value there at all.

I think Modigliani is great.

W'evs.

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HornsForever'93
1000+ posts
02/11/11 05:36 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

Warhol hands down

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Longhorny630
1000+ posts
02/11/11 05:42 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

I don't see how Jackson Pollock isn't on there. And Andres Serrano. Hey, why don't you take a picture of what I make when I orgasm, mix it with some blood, and bam, you've got art.




When I grow up, I'm going to Bovine University.

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accuratehornSponsor
10,000+ posts
02/11/11 06:22 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

I've seen better critical writing on the walls of Scholtz's Biergarten. What an idiot.
Da Vinci, Renoir, Chagall, Dali...all most overrated of all time?
Get a new job to which you are suited, maybe teaching finger painting to kindergarteners. And stay on your meds next time.




Knowledge is good

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general35
5000+ posts
02/11/11 08:09 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

Basquiat. Here is a sketch of his you can have for 65k
The Link

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l00pSponsor
25,000+ posts
02/11/11 08:44 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

What about Mark Rothko?

Rothko






"The University of Texas at Austin, where Game Day is every day. Hook 'em!"


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OldHippie
1000+ posts
02/11/11 10:00 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

Speaking for many an old wasted and burned out hippie, I strenuously object to the inclusion of Salvador Dali to this list. As far as I'm concerned, he is THE MAN.

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YoLaDu
5000+ posts
02/11/11 10:13 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

don't you dare imply Rothko should be on that list.

Seriously though, one of my favorites.




"Writing songs is like trying to squeeze a watermelon out of your ass. And you would think after having done it hundreds of times, the aperture would get wider and they'd just sort of start falling out of you. But it doesn't. - Nick Cave on songwriting

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buckhorn
2500+ posts
02/11/11 10:37 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

Warhol -- No one has been more important over the last 60 years, maybe longer. As great as they come.

Basquiat -- Awesome, distinct, full of life's force -- a favorite of mine, admittedly.

Rothko -- His color fields are [censored] great.

Pollack -- I get being non-plussed by his drippings, but he was immensely important, which is to say, innovative. I even like some of his stuff.

Trying to pick fights with all-time giants. Gnat work (I can see quibbling over Damien Hirst or, say, Matthew Barney -- the jury's still out).

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Statalyzer
25,000+ posts
02/12/11 02:21 AM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

In reply to:

Basquiat. Here is a sketch of his you can have for 65k




I think the best phrase that sums up a lot of famous and pricey artwork is: "Sure, you could have, but you didn't."




"You were once a professor of psychiatry specializing in helping paranoid and homicidal lunatics suffering from delusions of grandeur."

"Yes, but now I work for the United Nations."

"So your work has not changed?"

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kbrown
1000+ posts
02/12/11 10:59 AM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

In reply to:

Warhol -- No one has been more important over the last 60 years, maybe longer. As great as they come.

Basquiat -- Awesome, distinct, full of life's force -- a favorite of mine, admittedly.

Rothko -- His color fields are [censored] great.

Pollack -- I get being non-plussed by his drippings, but he was immensely important, which is to say, innovative. I even like some of his stuff.




I don't know what this stuff even means but it sure sounds good!!!

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Longhorny630
1000+ posts
02/12/11 12:22 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

In reply to:

"Sure, you could have, but you didn't."




Heard this argument before, doesn't fly in my book. You want me to go to jack off onto a camera? Bam, you've got the work of Andres Serrano. Want to throw some paint cans on a wall? Bam, you've got Pollock. Why would I pay for money for something I or any 5th grader can do? I could and I choose not to because it is a waste of time and effort.

In reply to:

a photograph of a plastic crucifix submerged in a glass of the artist's own urine. This caused great controversy when first exhibited. The work was sold for $162,000 in December 1999 in London




Would I do it for 162 grand, probably, but what I want to know, is who the hell would pay 162 grand for something that took 5 minutes and a couple water bottles to make? Tell you what, for 162 grand, I'll make an artwork piece called "R Kelly revisited" where I will come and pee on whoever wins the auction. Anybody here care to make the first bid?




When I grow up, I'm going to Bovine University.

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buckhorn
2500+ posts
02/12/11 01:02 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

In reply to:

Want to throw some paint cans on a wall? Bam, you've got Pollock.




This completely misses the social and cultural dynamics involved in creating new and daring art. Alot of work and thought goes into one day deciding to drip paint onto the canvas. That's why you aren't creating any art, not because you don't want to.

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l00pSponsor
25,000+ posts
02/12/11 01:19 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

YoLaDu, I like Rothko too. I also love Magritte and a few on that list above. I was suggesting him as a name that has come up in discussions about this with friends in the past. He is one of the artists that kids would exclaim, "I could do THAT!" in the Smithsonian when I would be there. (used to live in D.C. and went quite often).

I just offered it up as somebody that many would feel could be there. Dali's other works, the ones not on calendars and posters, are stunning and actually the ones I prefer.

In no way do I agree with that guys list but that's what makes art (music, paintings, whatever) fun. It's all individual and opinions will always vary.






"The University of Texas at Austin, where Game Day is every day. Hook 'em!"


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THEU
2500+ posts
02/12/11 01:28 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

I know next to nothing about art. I know enough to know that I like going to the Art Institute when I am back in Chicago and enjoy looking at paintings. I get some stuff and don't get others. I will say that some paintings/painters look so easy and yet the complexity and beauty is still astounding.
That being said as a preface to the fact that I LOVE Pollock. I really don't see that what he does is hard. Really does seem like splashings of paint, but try to recreate it. You think you can, but you can't.

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Gasman
100+ posts
02/12/11 02:15 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

Most of those guys are OK, but I think we can all agree that Bob Ross is the greatest artist of this or any generation.

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YoLaDu
5000+ posts
02/12/11 04:17 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

When someone looks at a work of art and says to me dismissively: "i could have done that.", I always respond: "well, why didn't you?"

Then come the usual excuses.









"Writing songs is like trying to squeeze a watermelon out of your ass. And you would think after having done it hundreds of times, the aperture would get wider and they'd just sort of start falling out of you. But it doesn't. - Nick Cave on songwriting

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accuratehornSponsor
10,000+ posts
02/12/11 05:36 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

Apparently some of you did not include a couple of art history classes in your degree program. I recommend it highly.




Knowledge is good

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Longhorny630
1000+ posts
02/12/11 06:03 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

In reply to:

Then come the usual excuses.




What, like doing something productive with my life? I'm an engineer, I find that throwing paint cans on a wall or taking pictures of menstrual blood and semen mixed together or drawing 5 lines on a white canvas as a waste of time and I wouldn't take most of this [censored] if they were giving it away for free. I like things that have a purpose, that do something, I find beauty in the design of aircrafts, bridges, dams, wonders of the modern world (i love studying orbital mechanics as there really is beauty in how objects in space move around). There is some artwork that I can appreciate, stuff like portraits from an age when photographs did not exist or Washington crossing the Delaware or Napoleon crossing the alps or Liberty leading the people, mostly because it serves a purpose in immortalizing images of mankind that would otherwise have been forgotten. Pollock, Serrano, all these other modern artists I couldn't give a rats ass about because their artwork and consequently their lives have no meaning to me. Obviously not everybody feels the way I do, but I know that others would agree with me.

I think the biggest example of how I feel towards modern art can best be explained by that ugly ass Czech hedgehog looking thing that is outside the Mechanical Engineering building on campus, or "clock knot" as it prefers to be called. My first three years at UT that was just an open space of grass where people could sit or walk around on or do whatever. Then they installed (and spent a fair amount of cash) that piece of [censored] on there to "beautify" campus. It's ugly, it's a waste of space and resources, and an insult to the engineering department. If they want to install this thing in the 6 pack or on top of a Lib Arts building by all means, please do so, but keep your liberal arts ass pointless [censored] out of my engineering section of campus. I would prefer if they put a student designed wind turbine there since the wind going across that bridge is always insane, or just left it as it was.

I'm so glad that the one lib arts class that I was forced to take in my 4 years at UT was not art history but rather the history of rock.


modern art - "i could do that"
"yah, but you didnt...want to"




When I grow up, I'm going to Bovine University.

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atxbomber
1000+ posts
02/12/11 08:23 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

i find engineers would be a lot more tolerable if they all just got laid every once in awhile.




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l00pSponsor
25,000+ posts
02/12/11 09:27 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

Or got jobs at job fairs. Something, yeesh. Captain Sunshine, I really hope you get your [censored] together and hope you are not 1/10 as unhappy as you seem.






"The University of Texas at Austin, where Game Day is every day. Hook 'em!"


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GemStateJim
2500+ posts
02/12/11 09:40 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: l00p]

In reply to:

hope you are not 1/10 as unhappy as you seem.



Hey, this is nothing. If you want to see unhappy, check out some of the comments in the "Jerry Gray" threads in the football forum.

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l00pSponsor
25,000+ posts
02/12/11 09:47 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

Do they rival the ice event in Austin thread?






"The University of Texas at Austin, where Game Day is every day. Hook 'em!"


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Longhorny630
1000+ posts
02/12/11 10:53 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

In reply to:

i find engineers would be a lot more tolerable if they all just got laid every once in awhile.




you and me both.

In reply to:

Or got jobs at job fairs. Something, yeesh. Captain Sunshine, I really hope you get your [censored] together and hope you are not 1/10 as unhappy as you seem.




c'mon man, i gave up on getting my [censored] together after 2 years of unemployment. they dont want me, i say [censored] em, i dont want them. find me a sugar momma so i can just check the hell out and watch tv all day (without having to worry about where imma get some money)




When I grow up, I'm going to Bovine University.

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l00pSponsor
25,000+ posts
02/13/11 10:37 AM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

In reply to:

find me a sugar momma so i can just check the hell out and watch tv all day (without having to worry about where imma get some money)




You brilliant son of a gun! Do you have a newsletter for I would like to subscribe.






"The University of Texas at Austin, where Game Day is every day. Hook 'em!"


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Longhorny630
1000+ posts
02/13/11 11:59 AM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

no, but you will have the opportunity to watch me on national tv in about 3 weeks




When I grow up, I'm going to Bovine University.

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YoLaDu
5000+ posts
02/13/11 12:45 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: Longhorny630]

In reply to:

You want me to go to jack off onto a camera?




In reply to:

you will have the opportunity to watch me on national tv in about 3 weeks




wow, i didn't think you were being serious about that.




"Writing songs is like trying to squeeze a watermelon out of your ass. And you would think after having done it hundreds of times, the aperture would get wider and they'd just sort of start falling out of you. But it doesn't. - Nick Cave on songwriting

Edited by YoLaDu (02/13/11 12:46 PM)

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Namewithheld
1000+ posts
02/13/11 12:55 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

One of my favorites:






"At the end of the day, we want to lead the nation in wins. That's the only stat that matters.." - Manny Diaz the NEW DC at Texas

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Longhorny630
1000+ posts
02/13/11 01:12 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

now that is art.

no yo, i will be in a slightly less embarrassing situation




When I grow up, I'm going to Bovine University.

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l00pSponsor
25,000+ posts
02/13/11 03:07 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

Are you on the Amazing Race?






"The University of Texas at Austin, where Game Day is every day. Hook 'em!"


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accuratehornSponsor
10,000+ posts
02/13/11 03:51 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

If you can admire a well engineered bridge or hear the music of the spheres, you should be able to enjoy a Piet Mondrian painting, and a lot of other art. Art adds beauty and meaning to a coldly scientific world. And sometimes the lines are blurred.
We just watched a documentary, available on Netflix, "Between the Folds," about origami. It may sound funny, but mathmaticians are studying the patterns origami artists have made, and making scientific discoveries through it.
If you study art, you may find one area that appeals to your intellectual curiosity, it could be painting, sculpture, modern art, resin designs...open your mind to the world around you. It can be a beautiful place.




Knowledge is good

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VYFan
2500+ posts
02/13/11 05:20 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

I can't say I know "art," but I know "artists" or "artistes" as they like to be known by. (I didn't learn this in a book or a class.)

PAY ATTENTION HERE, IT WILL SAVE YOU TIME in figuring out why stupid art is "acclaimed." I give you the truth for free.

Artists are--most of them--part of a sick negative subculture that exalts rebellion, deconstructionalism, existentialism, and anger toward all social structures. This is primarily because they feel rejected by and in rejection of society as they see it. They see art as their secret language that says to each other, "life sucks, people suck, everything they told us was true and valuable is a lie, my family sucks, no one understands us, etc."

I learned from being around artists that being an artiste was not connected to your art (as in what you make or paint or whatever) so much as your belief system. Ironically, one of their beliefs is that if your art is popular, or makes money, then it is by definition not real art, but a sell out.

The only exception can be that if your art is popular for the very reason that it is shocking (in content or in medium, or even in lack of content) or if it is weird or innovative in some way that would not be criticized by the flock of artist sheep as a sell out. So, crosses in urine or splashes of paint or whatever can qualify.

People who like this, what I will call stupid art, that has obviously no skill displayed or insight or beauty (okay, that's subjective), usually are either (1) pumped up politically by the "message," the message being rebellion against what is necessary or practical (i.e., the engineer's well-planned bridges, etc., mentioned above); or (2) people who for some reason want to be accepted into the secret mysterious world of artists. Usually--almost always--it goes with what you would call a liberal political mindset.

It's also ironic that this bad philosophy that infects the artist community and makes them unhappy, dependent, unproductive, and usually chemically dependent, and which rejects successful participation in the economy, then turns around and has as its central theme that there should be more "support" for the arts, which means that the government should prop up the price of art that has been made to be unpleasant on purpose. And, how unfair it is that artists are not given the recognition in society that engineers are, etc.

So, it's not just a random set of preferences of your eye versus my eye. It's very tied into a political worldview.

(This does not apply to honest differences of opinion in comparing various artists who have mastered control of a brush or color, or sculpture, or monologues, or etching, or mobiles or whatever their art is; I'm responding to why "stupid art" gets pushed forward.)




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Longhorny630
1000+ posts
02/13/11 07:45 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

i get your point accurate, but look at that "artwork" by basuiat that somebody posted earlier. theres no math involved there, it's almost as if he had a deadline to deliver a new painting, woke up the morning it was due, throw some [censored] down on a page and said voila. Then you look at something done by MC Escher, that is something I can appreciate.

In reply to:

Are you on the Amazing Race?




No but I would very much like to be, unfortunately, I have to wait 6 months from my last appearance on TV before I can go on TV again so it wouldn't be until next season. Beside, this upcoming season of AR is all former contestants.






When I grow up, I'm going to Bovine University.

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Namewithheld
1000+ posts
02/13/11 07:54 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

In reply to:

No but I would very much like to be, unfortunately, I have to wait 6 months from my last appearance on TV before I can go on TV again so it wouldn't be until next season. Beside, this upcoming season of AR is all former contestants.




Let us know what you will be on and we at Hornfans will support you...........




"At the end of the day, we want to lead the nation in wins. That's the only stat that matters.." - Manny Diaz the NEW DC at Texas

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GemStateJim
2500+ posts
02/13/11 07:59 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

This has become a lively discussion. Someone even tied taste in art to political worldviews. Who'da thunk it?

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texas_ex2000
1000+ posts
02/13/11 08:15 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: Longhorny630]

In reply to:

I'm so glad that the one lib arts class that I was forced to take in my 4 years at UT...


Wow...Congrats on training yourself for a trade, but what a wasted opportunity to learn something about the world.

In reply to:

Heard this argument before, doesn't fly in my book. You want me to go to jack off onto a camera? Bam, you've got the work of Andres Serrano. Want to throw some paint cans on a wall? Bam, you've got Pollock. Why would I pay for money for something I or any 5th grader can do? I could and I choose not to because it is a waste of time and effort.


Hey, I'm not a fan of the urine cruxifix either, but the point of all of this just seems to fly over that engineer head of yours.

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Longhorny630
1000+ posts
02/13/11 10:09 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

In reply to:

Let us know what you will be on and we at Hornfans will support you...........




Will do my man. I'll be sure to put a PSA for it on cactus, probably in about 2 weeks.

In reply to:

Wow...Congrats on training yourself for a trade, but what a wasted opportunity to learn something about the world.




In my experiences, taking history of rock as my one fine art requirement has done me better than the others that were offered. Although, I didn't have to study for history of rock since I could've taught that class from day one, haha.

In reply to:

but the point of all of this just seems to fly over that engineer head of yours.




error, error, does not compute




When I grow up, I'm going to Bovine University.

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texas_ex2000
1000+ posts
02/14/11 06:57 AM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: Longhorny630]

In reply to:

In my experiences, taking history of rock as my one fine art requirement has done me better than the others that were offered. Although, I didn't have to study for history of rock since I could've taught that class from day one, haha.



The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.

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accuratehornSponsor
10,000+ posts
02/14/11 07:50 AM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

I don't like some engineering feats, should I bash all engineers because some bridges collapsed? Enjoy the art you enjoy, let others enjoy what they enjoy.




Knowledge is good

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Longhorny630
1000+ posts
02/14/11 10:48 AM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

I get that. But, what differentiates the world of art and engineering is that poorly engineered objects will be replaced and trashed. In the world of art, poorly done art will be called "modern" and you have a masterpiece. It would appear that engineering leaves no room for error or failure, yet art welcomes it. Although, in art's defense, even it refused to accept Hitler's work, although if it had maybe he never would have become interested in politics.


In reply to:

The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool.




ive been unemployed for 2 years, i know im a fool, but not in rock n roll.


In reply to:

Astrid Weller: Your husband's work is what we call "outsider art." It could be by a mental patient, a hillbilly or a chimpanzee. Homer: In high school I was voted most likely to *be* a mental patient, hillbilly or chimpanzee.




Don't talk bad about Oldenburg either, that guy must be 60 feet tall




When I grow up, I'm going to Bovine University.

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texas_ex2000
1000+ posts
02/14/11 11:16 AM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: Longhorny630]

In reply to:

I get that. But, what differentiates the world of art and engineering is that poorly engineered objects will be replaced and trashed. In the world of art, poorly done art will be called "modern" and you have a masterpiece. It would appear that engineering leaves no room for error or failure, yet art welcomes it. Although, in art's defense, even it refused to accept Hitler's work, although if it had maybe he never would have become interested in politics.



That's a very good argument. It seems like you're defining Art in this thread specifically as paintings and sculptures. That's fine and we can just talk about paintings and sculptures, but it's important to point out that paintings and sculptures are just mediums. Art is more than just paintings and sculptures...it's literature, music, films, and design, etc.

In the art world, there's always been push-back against the new...the unorthodox. Since you're such a rock and roll connoisseur, you no doubt are aware that most people at some time thought rock was garbage. It didn't have the nice mathematically elegant and symmetric time and pitch of classical music. Hell, even romantics like Tchaikovsky and modernists like Gerhswin had to fight their own battles against the classical establishment. And when Elvis came out...forget it, his lyrics may have as well been a cruxifix in urine.

Literature...Joyce's Ulyssess was banned in the UK and labeled obscene.

Film...take your pick.

Design and architecture...this should be in your wheelhouse since it's the most engineering centric artistic medium. Three words...La Tour Eiffel.

That's not to say there isn't bad art. There is...plenty. And that's not to say there are no critics/historians/collectors with bad taste...there are. But it's a little limiting to dismiss Art, Modern Art because it may seem simple...easy to make, e.g. Beethoven composed symphonies for 12 piece orchestras. The Beatles were 4 dudes. It's not about the medium or even the physical manifestation (whether it was technically difficult or easy to create) of what you're looking at...the art and the artist's intent is in the lasting impression you take away.

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Clean
1000+ posts
02/14/11 11:26 AM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

In reply to:

Warhol hands down




This.

Campbell soup cans and Marilyn Monroe? Warhol made fun of art. He commercialized and debased it.

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Lone Star
2500+ posts
02/14/11 11:57 AM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

In reply to:

In the world of art, poorly done art will be called "modern" and you have a masterpiece. It would appear that engineering leaves no room for error or failure, yet art welcomes it. Although, in art's defense, even it refused to accept Hitler's work, although if it had maybe he never would have become interested in politics.




Now you have done it -- invoking Hitler in a response -- Reductio ad Hitlerum. What is has to do with the discussion – I do not know.

The fallacy in your argument is the assumption that any new work immediately is embraced as “modern” and accepted as advancing the cannon. For every Di Vinci, Pollock, Picasso, Vermeer are thousands of artists who try, fail and toil in annominity. Further disservice is done by claiming that someone who pissed in a jar and dropped in a crucifix or ejaculated onto a camera as being representative of 10,000 years of artistic expression. Just because someone paid them does not constitute a movement or “modernism”, just a buyer and seller getting together in the free market.

Just like in engineering, where trial and error on a computer simulation is required before a design is ratified, art undergoes the same painstaking process of trial and error and evolution.

Just because you think you could reproduce something – reduces Art purely to the aesthetic, and not the larger narrative of what came before and after. I can go build a roman arch today – does that mean I am an engineer? Of course not. If it were so easy to do – then many people would be doing it and it would be easy to do.

Regarding overrated artists:

The Paul Rubens School. Love the works by the master. The works from the workshop – not so great.




-----
"Son, if you pull for this team, be prepared: they are going to break your heart many times."

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Longhorny630
1000+ posts
02/14/11 01:36 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

In reply to:

Now you have done it -- invoking Hitler in a response -- Reductio ad Hitlerum. What is has to do with the discussion – I do not know.




Thats the whole point man, its like art dude, im rejecting your accepted forms of debate and using a new method i created called 'use hitler in every debate possible'. sure people can easily replicate it, but they dont therefore i am a good artist. (actually, using hitler was just a joke since he was after all, a failed artist).

ok, i will redact my statements against modern art, but i still consider outsider art and shock art to be a joke and the people who use these mediums to proclaim themselves artist are a joke as well.




When I grow up, I'm going to Bovine University.

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buckhorn
2500+ posts
02/14/11 03:12 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

In reply to:

i get your point accurate, but look at that "artwork" by basuiat that somebody posted earlier.




Firstly, that sketch was not intended for public consumption and was sent into the world only after Basquiat's untimely death made his entire body of work valuable. Secondly, I understand accurate's desire to help you find some broader inroad to art appreciation, but overtly mathematical approaches should not be the beginning and end of you ability to enjoy graphic art, or even sculptures, etc. To each his own, yadda yadda. There is no necessity that you like or appreciate graphic art, but when you are vociferous about it a critique of you stance is warranted.

I have a healthy of collection of monographs connected primarily with painters, though some are also given to photography. Something like 100 books. I don't like everything by every artist represented in that collection and there are many artists considered to be masters whose work does nothing for me. I can talk in technical terms about those artists and appreciate why others are enthralled by their work, but, personally, for instance, Mondrian does nothing for me. I rush by his stuff in museum settings and would never bother to again crack one of his monographs. Everyone has a range of appreciation.

Much of the writing that is done in the service of trying to place the import and method of a given artist is insufferably opaque and self-referential, which is to say stuck up art world gab. I get that the values that control the art world and the commercial and critical successes and failures found therein do not translate smoothly or consistently in the work-a-day world.

Usually I assume that everyone understands that most criticisms are just opinions based in personal preference without any real thought to address broader societal values or politics, etc. When I say that U2 is a wholly worthless band I don't think it is necessary to everytime point out that such is an opinion based on personal tastes. Obvious. I mean, I am not trying to say something about the person who does like U2 (unless they start to try to ascribe broader social value to their music than is supported by the evidence).

I get being put off by the overt politics of some art, especially where the process involved does not suggest any particular talent other than an ability to concoct something that is offensive or shockingly distasteful (I have never given the Piss Christ much thought and other shock pieces, including alot of performance art (yeesh), don't hold my interest in the least). But there are many instances where the shock or offense is created as the result of a piece that speaks to profound issues, a piece that does so through a painstaking process which is aware of self, the world, art, history, etc. Alot of what makes art is its ability to move us, to challenge our perceptions and expectations, to shake our comfort zones, etc. In some ways art is an adjunct to the sciences in the Western realms.

Still, I am amazed at the generalizations being flopped out in this thread. Especially since there seems to be some political and socio-cultural jabs to boot (and none to insightful).

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GemStateJim
2500+ posts
02/14/11 04:11 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: buckhorn]

In reply to:

Still, I am amazed at the generalizations being flopped out in this thread. Especially since there seems to be some political and socio-cultural jabs to boot (and none to insightful).



Amen.

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TexasGolf
5000+ posts
02/14/11 08:44 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

atxbombers sig




Hook'em Horns
'91 '92 '93 '94 '95 Golf SWC Champions

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VYFan
2500+ posts
02/14/11 08:45 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

Assuming that the "non-insightful" label is thrown my way, I said I don't know art--obviously nowhere near what you seem to know, Buckhorn (and I'm not being sarcastic). But I have known artists. I have known artists like Basquiat; I have known heroin addicts; I have known suicidals; I am not giving you "insight," but I am telling you how most artists are. No big surprise that Basquiat OD'd at a young age, and no surprise that the art community decided to glorify a former graffiti artist with little training who pushed subversive themes.

BTW, I think Basquiat's art is perfectly valid for someone to like (not what I called "stupid art"). His career just illustrates how the system works, and why it sometimes leads to the silly results of what I do call stupid art.

Also, I think that lots of people who are sad suicidal downward spiraling drug addicts do create the most interesting and best art. I happen to like Nick Drake, for instance. Van Gogh.

The issue I was addressing is why there is often a high market price for some art that is obviously reflective of no talent. Anytime you discuss market value, by definition you have to look at generalizations and the reasons why so many people act in the same way so as to create the generalization.




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Namewithheld
1000+ posts
02/14/11 09:42 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

Nobody's commented on my favorite picture yet.




"At the end of the day, we want to lead the nation in wins. That's the only stat that matters.." - Manny Diaz the NEW DC at Texas

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HammerOfTheHorns
250+ posts
02/14/11 11:41 PM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

Seems to me you are all arguing in part about where commerce and art intersect. Most people will agree that the integrity of art is compromised when commercial considerations enter into the creative process (no longer purely an expression of human feeling through a medium, but now aiming to appeal to specific tastes in order to achieve financial gain.) The problem is a lot of the kingmakers in all art forms are more about turning a buck than they are about the artists' expression. When your primary goal is making money you are very willing to compromise which art you put out to the public and this is true of all mediums. This means we end up with lots of bad films, paintings, books, and music.

The burden is on the "consumer" to be able to judge the integrity of any artistic offering. How much of what I'm taking in is an expression of the artist's human feeling and how much of it is there because somebody thinks that's what I want from the mere commodity that art is to them?




The Hammer of the Horns

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Perham1
5000+ posts
02/15/11 07:55 AM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: HammerOfTheHorns]

The unholy trinity of the Academy of the Overrated are:

Jean-Michel Basquiat
Julian Schnabel
Jeff Koons




I have the simplest tastes. I am always satisfied with the best. Oscar Wilde

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accuratehornSponsor
10,000+ posts
02/15/11 07:58 AM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: YoLaDu]

Well, namewithheld, someone left a set of four Dogs Playing Poker prints at my shop, anonymously. I tried to bring them home to increase the artistic presence of our wallspace, but encountered heavy spousal resistance. I just can't understand it. Some people just don't appreciate fine art.




Knowledge is good

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YoLaDu
5000+ posts
02/15/11 07:59 AM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: HammerOfTheHorns]

good post, Hammer.

The movie "Exit Through The Giftshop" addresses this issue of art, promotion, hype, and commerce rather deftly.

In that regard, i am torn with my feelings on Warhol as an "artist" - that word alone is another debate in itself. Warhol's impact was meaningful, for sure, but was he more great promoter and cultural arbiter than a great artist, and/or does that even really matter? Or is it futile to even try to define. Was Warhol's work a true expression of himself or was it toward the end just a commodity he produced to sustain a particular lifestyle?

Now, I don't think there is anything particularly wrong with that, but i know for many in the "art world", people struggle with Warhol. Sure, It could be jealousy, but it could come from a very pure place as well.




"Writing songs is like trying to squeeze a watermelon out of your ass. And you would think after having done it hundreds of times, the aperture would get wider and they'd just sort of start falling out of you. But it doesn't. - Nick Cave on songwriting

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Perham1
5000+ posts
02/15/11 08:23 AM
Re: Ten Most Overrated Artists in Art History [re: HammerOfTheHorns]

The burden is on the "consumer" to be able to judge the integrity of any artistic offering.

Largely an impossible, and completely unrealistic and misguided, task imo. Measuring the "integrity" (what even is that in art?) in art is a subjective quest. What is art to you, what has integrity to you, may not to another.

There is no burden on the consumer. Just buy what you like. Study art to find out what other people's opinions are if you want. I'm not saying to go Meyer Schapiro on anybody's ass, but a few Robert Hughes' essays probably wouldn't hurt.




I have the simplest tastes. I am always satisfied with the best. Oscar Wilde

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