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Sports
   >> On The Field

  Rate thread Print Thread
bck031
1000+ posts
05/03/13 02:57 PM
Top 50 Quarterbacks of the BCS Era

1. Vince Young, Texas (2003-05)
Stats: 6,040 yds, 44 TD, 10 INT, 62.8%, 3,127 yds, 37 TD

12. Colt McCoy, Texas (2006-09)
Stats: 13,253 yds, 112 TD, 45 INT, 70.3%, 1,571 yds, 20 TD

Link

I think Colt should be higher.




Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. - Mr. Tom Landry

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NRHorn
100+ posts
05/03/13 03:01 PM
Re: Top 50 Quarterbacks of the BCS Era [re: bck031]

Definitely above Wienke and Aj MCaron.

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Hpslugga
10,000+ posts
05/03/13 03:12 PM
Re: Top 50 Quarterbacks of the BCS Era [re: bck031]

I stopped reading after I saw #2. That is an absolute embarrassment






de omnibus dubitandum

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Third Coast
10,000+ posts
05/03/13 05:45 PM
Re: Top 50 Quarterbacks of the BCS Era [re: bck031]

Prejudices aside, Tebow certainly was an extremely productive QB at the college level. That is after all, what this list is about.

Besides, Tebow always wanted to be closer to God and now he is - right behind him at #2. At least as far as some Horns fans are concerned.




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georgecostanza
1000+ posts
05/03/13 10:55 PM
Re: Top 50 Quarterbacks of the BCS Era [re: bck031]

Carson Palmer at 51?

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AustinBatSponsor
2500+ posts
05/05/13 12:13 AM
Re: Top 50 Quarterbacks of the BCS Era [re: bck031]

Third Coast -




I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson

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Hpslugga
10,000+ posts
05/05/13 07:00 AM
Re: Top 50 Quarterbacks of the BCS Era [re: bck031]

In reply to:

an extremely productive QB at the college level. That is after all, what this list is about.


If that was true, Brennan, Harrell, Kingsbury, Chang, etc would be a lot closer to the top, certainly closer than freaking Antwaan Randle El.






de omnibus dubitandum

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SHS1984
250+ posts
05/05/13 12:39 PM
Re: Top 50 Quarterbacks of the BCS Era [re: bck031]


Tebow is a good choice for 2nd. He is the only one that is close to VY in my opinion.
Cam Newton is my #3. He could have been #1 if he had not been at Florida at the same time as Tebow.
Griffin could have been #1 if he did not go to Baylor.

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Hpslugga
10,000+ posts
05/06/13 11:48 AM
Re: Top 50 Quarterbacks of the BCS Era [re: SHS1984]

In reply to:

Griffin could have been #1 if he did not go to Baylor.


You're confusing Top 50 QB's with Top 50 teams. The fact that he played at Baylor should carry absolutely no weight whatsoever in evaluating his performance as a QB.

And to your point about Tebow, Griffin was most certainly better than him, as were, at the very least, 11 other QB's not named Vince Young. June Jones had it straight about Tebow: he was a system player, which was precisely why he's been a bust in the NFL. He's going the exact same way of White, Weinke, Ware, Crouch, etc, and for the exact same reason: when you as a QB step into the NFL, you're stepping out of your little ghetto and into the real world. Weinke and White couldn't cut it in the NFL because they didn't have 7 seconds to throw balls to wide open WR's that were clearly more talented than 90% of their competition, Ware had the same problem, Crouch was just a runner, and Tebow was asked to do more than just run a 1920's wedge offense.

None of this is to say that NFL performance should be an absolute core factor, but it should be used when it exposes certain players whose greatness in college depended overwhelmingly on being a product of a system rather than talent, ability, mechanics, the "it factor," and so on.






de omnibus dubitandum

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majorwhiteapples
5000+ posts
05/06/13 11:51 AM
Re: Top 50 Quarterbacks of the BCS Era [re: bck031]

If the Major is not in the top 5 we all know what a bogus list it is!!!!!!

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Statalyzer
25,000+ posts
05/06/13 06:37 PM
Re: Top 50 Quarterbacks of the BCS Era [re: bck031]

Tebow would have had similar stats in any sane system in college.

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Hpslugga
10,000+ posts
05/07/13 06:00 AM
Re: Top 50 Quarterbacks of the BCS Era [re: bck031]

Sorry but there's no evidence to support that conjecture.






de omnibus dubitandum

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Golden Steer
100+ posts
05/07/13 11:55 AM
Re: Top 50 Quarterbacks of the BCS Era [re: bck031]

But the list isn't "Top 50 quaterbacks who did well in both college and pro ball". It's just college.

College ball is differnt than the pros. That's a huge percentage of the NFL quarterbacks that start you've never heard of when they played college ball. They played for some small school, or their teams lost a lost. But if they're 6-5 and can throw a ball 50 MPH, they're what the NFL is looking for.

Look, I get it that Tebow is not a good NFL quarterback. But at the college level, look at his numbers, his touchdowns, his wins. Regardless of his style, he won all those games. If that was easy to do, running a 20's style offense, people would do it all the time.

Good choice at #2.

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Hpslugga
10,000+ posts
05/07/13 02:24 PM
Re: Top 50 Quarterbacks of the BCS Era [re: Golden Steer]

In reply to:

But the list isn't "Top 50 quaterbacks who did well in both college and pro ball". It's just college.


No one stated any different. I already acknowledged that and, again, his NFL career was what merely exposed him for what he was in college, while he was in college: a system player. There's a difference between being a truly great player and being a system player. Even Athlon Sports and their amateur writers know the difference, which is why they rated guys like Brennan, Harrell, Chang, Kingsbury, et al so low even though their numbers would indicate that they "should" be rated a lot higher. The fact that they don't do the same for Tebow merely reveals them to be a case study in the sports media's drooling over him.
In reply to:

Regardless of his style


It's about acknowledging that his limitations were so vast that Urban Meyer had to tailor his offense to suit Tebow. They couldn't even run the same scheme Meyer ran at Utah because Tebow lacked the speed and shiftiness to run the option effectively, even though they had the skill players to make it work. They instead ran a wedge offense, which does so much to mask a QB's lack of speed, not to mention his utter inability to comprehend the short passing game. Stat said that he could do well in any offense and that's just ridiculous.

Plug him into that system Colt McCoy ran from 2008-2009 and he'd fall flat on his face. Meyer understood that, and that's why Florida ran what they ran.

Plug him into that Utah system Meyer ran with Alex Smith and he'd fall flat on his face. Meyer understood that, and that's why Florida ran what they ran.

That Wedge crap is purely a college-level offense, and when it can only work with a guy like Tebow, and when it's the only offense in which Tebow would excel, that's what renders him a system player. It's not about "style."

And just for the record, Tebow did not "win all those games." His teams did, and those teams had outstanding defenses and fantastic special teams units, not to mention solid offensive lines and very versatile skill position players. He could not have asked for a better team.
In reply to:

look at his numbers, his touchdowns, his wins.


First of all, again, wins are a team statistic. Second, there are guys on that list with more yards (some of them significantly more) and more TD's. But a lot of them were penalized for having been system players (there's no other reason to put Brennan and Chang 57th and 62nd). That list isn't about stats, and it's not about wins. It's about "who would you want running your offense on an ideal team." Only a blind partisan would choose Tim Tebow over guys like Brees, Griffin, Bradford, Vick, McCoy, Moore, Kaepernick, Newton, Manning, Roethlisberger, Ryan, etc.

All of those guys were better passers in college than Tebow, and nearly half of them were better runners as well. Hell, one could argue that Colt was at least comparable as a runner.






de omnibus dubitandum

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NRHorn
100+ posts
05/07/13 03:47 PM
Re: Top 50 Quarterbacks of the BCS Era [re: bck031]

Forget the claimed positive media hype and the obvious Tebow phobic crowd out there.
I cannot believe that anyone would not consider Tim Tebow anything but a great college QB.
First player to win the Hiesman as a Soph.
Tebow held the SEC all-time records in both career passing efficiency and total rushing touchdowns, appearing second and tenth (respectively) in the NCAA record book.
Played in 55 games and lost like 3?(that's a guess BTW)
This was during the SEC heyday.
Yes, without a doubt, if I was putting togehter a college FB team, methinks I'd take Tebow.




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Hpslugga
10,000+ posts
05/07/13 04:19 PM
Re: Top 50 Quarterbacks of the BCS Era [re: NRHorn]

In reply to:

Tebow phobic


That's in your head. Saying that he was horrendous in the short passing game and that he lacked the speed and shiftiness to run the option isn't a "phobia," it's an honest and accurate critique. Now, if you want to dispute said critique, that's one thing, but it's out of court to attribute it to some silly phrase like "Tebowphobia."
In reply to:

I cannot believe that anyone would not consider Tim Tebow anything but a great college QB.


Is it that you "cannot" believe, or that you do not want to believe it?
In reply to:

First player to win the Hiesman as a Soph.


Do we really need to re-hash how worthless an award is when it's given to people like Chris Weinke and Jason White, but not Vince Young or Ndamokung Suh? The Heisman has been a running joke for decades, and yet you're trying to submit it as some sort of definitive "evidence."
In reply to:

Played in 55 games and lost like 3?(that's a guess BTW)


Twice as many losses as your guess. And again, whether you like it or not, wins are a team statistic. That is to say "even though Kellen Moore and Colt McCoy had better winning percentages than Tebow, it's a team statistic."
In reply to:

Yes, without a doubt, if I was putting togehter a college FB team, methinks I'd take Tebow.


I might take him too, just not as a QB. If I were running the kind of offense that I'd run on my ideal team, my 4-deep at QB is, in no particular order, Vince Young, Cam Newton, Robert Griffin III, and Michael Vick. After that, it's probably Kaepernick and then a toss-up between Colt and Tebow (probably would go with Colt because of his passing skills). I suppose I'd pick Tebow as 1st or 2nd string if I was running a wedge offense, but that's about the best I can say about him as a QB.






de omnibus dubitandum

Edited by Hpslugga (05/07/13 04:21 PM)

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NRHorn
100+ posts
05/07/13 09:05 PM
Re: Top 50 Quarterbacks of the BCS Era [re: bck031]

What I was saying is based upon facts, for anyone to not consider Tebow a top NCAA QB is more based upon Tebowphobia than stats.
Darn near rushed for 1, 000 Yds twice, led the SEC in % completions, was near the top in SEC. Passing yds, had outstanding work ethic and competitiveness, won more awards than I can mention here.
I think it is impossible to "rank" any position based upon the system/era and the schedule, Slugga.. But I do think Tebow belongs on any short list of all time top QBs. Hey, I came up with the Tebow Phobia phrase on the fly tonight. It's genious, you just haven't let in sunk in yet.

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Hpslugga
10,000+ posts
05/08/13 11:52 AM
Re: Top 50 Quarterbacks of the BCS Era [re: NRHorn]

In reply to:

What I was saying is based upon facts, for anyone to not consider Tebow a top NCAA QB is more based upon Tebowphobia than stats.


Of the 75 QB's listed:

-43 of them averaged more passing yards per season than Tebow, which is to say nearly 60% of them did. And of those 43, 35 of them (as in roughly half of the 75) had more passing yards outright than Tebow did, and even some of those accomplished that feat in fewer seasons.

-28 of them averaged more TD passes per season than Tebow. Of those 28, 22 of them threw either as many TD passes as or more TD passes than Tebow did outright.

-14 of them had better completion percentages, and a 15th tied him (LeFevour).

-13 of them averaged more rushing yards per season than Tebow did. Of those 13, 8 had more overall rushing yards than Tebow did.

-5 of them threw fewer interceptions-per-attempt than Tebow did (others threw fewer total INT's but per-attempt is what matters, so he gets a pass there)

-5 of them averaged more rushing TD's per season than Tebow. Of those 5, 2 of them had more rushing TD's outright (Kaepernick and Crouch).

-1 of them had a better passing efficiency rating than Tebow (Bradford)

So in all the meaningful stats, when compared to a per season basis (which is the only sensible thing to do), Tebow only ranks in the top 5 3 times, the top 2 once, and he leads in none of them. The only "stats" that he leads are raw totals, which can (and do) mislead when comparing 4-year guys to guys that played less than 4 years. More generally, stats can and do mislead because they do not distinguish truly great QB's from system QB's. Graham Harrell had a buttload more passing yards and TD's than Andrew Luck, but only a fool would look at those stats and say "Harrell was better than Luck at passing!"

The FACT is that Tebow gets absolutely trampled in meaningful statistics, and some of the people that beat him in one category are the same people that beat him in the others (Kaepernick, Young, LeFevour, etc).
In reply to:

Darn near rushed for 1, 000 Yds twice


His best season yielded 90 fewer yards than 1000. "Darn near" is a stretch. Plus, there have been very many QB's that actually did rush for 1,000 yards in a season, some of them played fewer games in said seasons than Tebow, and I know of at least 1 guy who did it multiple times (Kaepernick). So "darn near" ain't much of a consolation prize, especially considering than many people have actually accomplished it.
In reply to:

was near the top in SEC. Passing yds


We're not talking about the SEC, we're talking about the NCAA. And even if we were talking about the SEC, Tebow ranks 12th in that stat. Again, "near the top" is a stretch. Hell, Tebow doesn't even rank 1st among Florida QB's in the BCS era in that statistical category. That would be his predecessor, Chris Leak (and not that it matters, but 2 other pre-BCS Florida QB's rank ahead of Tebow as well).
In reply to:

I think it is impossible to "rank" any position based upon the system/era and the schedule, Slugga


Well if you really thought that, you wouldn't have attributed your opinion to a profound misunderstanding of statistics and a very obvious confusion between "fact" and "opinion." It'd be one thing if you just said "I just think Tebow is the 2nd best" and left it at that, but you went the extra step and tried to prove your "point" with stats that do not support it.
In reply to:

It's genious, you just haven't let in sunk in yet.


Well then I'm glad you agree that it was not genius.






de omnibus dubitandum

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NRHorn
100+ posts
05/08/13 02:38 PM
Re: Top 50 Quarterbacks of the BCS Era [re: bck031]

Slugga,
Thanks.

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lancelotlink
25+ posts
05/18/13 11:45 AM
Re: Top 50 Quarterbacks of the BCS Era [re: bck031]

Slugga: the Noam Chomsky of college football

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