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Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | (show all)   Rate thread Print Thread
BrothaHorn
1000+ posts
08/11/10 02:02 PM
Tax dollars to build mosques

In reply to:

Americans also may be surprised to learn that the United States has been an active participant in mosque construction projects overseas. In April, U.S. Ambassador to Tanzania Alfonso E. Lenhardt helped cut the ribbon at the 12th-century Kizimkazi Mosque, which was refurbished with assistance from the United States under a program to preserve culturally significant buildings. The U.S. government also helped save the Amr Ebn El Aas Mosque in Cairo, which dates back to 642. The mosque's namesake was the Muslim conqueror of Christian Egypt, who built the structure on the site where he had pitched his tent before doing battle with the country's Byzantine rulers. For those who think the Ground Zero Mosque is an example of "Muslim triumphalism" glorifying conquest, the Amr Ebn El Aas Mosque is an example of such a monument - and one paid for with U.S. taxpayer funds.

The mosques being rebuilt by the United States are used for religious worship, which raises important First Amendment questions. U.S. taxpayer money should not be used to preserve and promote Islam, even abroad. In July 2009, the Office of the Inspector General published an audit of U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) faith-based and community initiatives that examined whether government funds were being used for religious activities. The auditors found that while USAID was funding some religious activities, officials were "uncertain of whether such uses of Agency funding violate Agency regulations or the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the Constitution" when balanced against foreign-policy objectives.

For example, our government rebuilt the Al Shuhada Mosque in Fallujah, Iraq, expecting such benefits as "stimulating the economy, enhancing a sense of pride in the community, reducing opposition to international relief organizations operating in Fallujah, and reducing incentives among young men to participate in violence or insurgent groups." But Section 205.1(d) of title 22 of the Code of Federal Regulations prohibits USAID funds from being used for the rehabilitation of structures to the extent that those structures are used for "inherently religious activities." It is impossible to separate religion from a mosque; any such projects will necessarily support Islam.

The State Department is either wittingly or unwittingly using tax money to support Mr. Rauf's efforts to realize his dream of a supersized mosque blocks away from the sacred ground of the former World Trade Center, which was destroyed by Islamic fanaticism. This ill-considered decision will raise the ire of millions of Americans and illustrates the limits of what the denizens of Foggy Bottom know about diplomacy.






WT






Work Harder! Millions On Welfare Depend On You!

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2003TexasGrad
500+ posts
08/11/10 03:28 PM
Re: Tax dollars to build mosques [re: BrothaHorn]

I agree completely. American tax dollars should not be used for construction of religious buildings, here or abroad. My question is this: Are these buildings being refurbished because they are historical monuments or structures or because they are places of worship? Is the fact that they are places of worship null because they are considered historical structures, and that trumps the religious aspect? Also, how many Christian or Jewish monuments/structures have recieved US dollars in the same way?

Regardless, why the hell are US tax dollars going towards rebuilding ANY building in foreign countries???? It doesnt matter what it is...

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Michtex
2500+ posts
08/11/10 05:15 PM
Re: Tax dollars to build mosques [re: BrothaHorn]

Where was the outrage of the editor, and the OP for that matter, back in the day given that the audit primarily covers activities during the Bush year? Oh that's right, there wasn't a need to scare the masses to prevent a muslim community center from being built two blocks away from the WTC.
The Link

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2003TexasGrad
500+ posts
08/12/10 12:38 AM
Re: Tax dollars to build mosques [re: Michtex]

This article should have nothing to do with the building of a mosque in NYC..... We arent talking about building a Mosque next to Saint Peters Cathedral in the Vatican for crying out loud. There are alot of muslims who actually live in NYC. Some of them are my family members. The fact that ground zero is a couple of blocks away shouldnt matter. How does one determine how close is too close for peoples' sensitivities?

Can a mosque be built anywhere on Manhatten Island without people being offended? There is nothing legally that can stop it. The vast majority of the billion muslims on earth are decent people, and people need to grow up. Islam isnt to blame for 911. People are. A very small number of people.

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Statalyzer
25,000+ posts
08/12/10 01:27 AM
Re: Tax dollars to build mosques [re: BrothaHorn]

In reply to:

This article should have nothing to do with the building of a mosque in NYC




Then why was the rest of your post about a Mosque in New York instead of Mosques in foreign countries?




"You were once a professor of psychiatry specializing in helping paranoid and homicidal lunatics suffering from delusions of grandeur."

"Yes, but now I work for the United Nations."

"So your work has not changed?"

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2003TexasGrad
500+ posts
08/12/10 12:52 PM
Re: Tax dollars to build mosques [re: Statalyzer]

See Michtex's post.

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general35
5000+ posts
08/12/10 01:54 PM
Re: Tax dollars to build mosques [re: BrothaHorn]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
__________________________________________________

This language was expanded exponentially by the courts to prohibit a historical 10 commandment structure from sitting in a courthouse or a generic prayer at a football game but apparently its ok for government funds to go build mosques.

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TexasGolf
2500+ posts
08/12/10 02:04 PM
Re: Tax dollars to build mosques [re: BrothaHorn]

I am sure the ACLU will be filling a lawsuit in the very near future.

oh wait that would be for a Catholic church or synagogue

nothing to see here move along




Hook'em Horns
'91 '92 '93 '94 '95 Golf SWC Champions

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RomaVicta
10,000+ posts
08/12/10 03:34 PM
Re: Tax dollars to build mosques [re: BrothaHorn]

Interesting arena for the church-state issue.

It's probably good foreign policy to preserve historically significant sites in the Old World. Good PR. I wonder if the government can be seen to be advocating a state religion outside the boundaries of the US. In other words, since the structures are outside of the US and not meant for US citizens, does that possibly provide a loop hole? Any lawyers have an idea?

The other question about should we be building or restoring anything overseas is a valid one. It seems to be good world citizenship and PR to lend a hand in places where we are not much trusted. I don't object to a small expenditure for such a thing whether it's an ancient mosque or tomb or temple.

Hmm. If we contributed to the restoration or preservation of the Parthenon or Pantheon, would we be advocating polytheism? At what, if any, point does the endeavor become archeological rather than theological?

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AustinBatSponsor
1000+ posts
08/12/10 03:44 PM
Re: Tax dollars to build mosques [re: BrothaHorn]

In reply to:

It's probably good foreign policy to preserve historically significant sites in the Old World. Good PR.




We, as a country, CANNOT AFFORD THIS KIND OF THING ANYMORE. Most of the countries don't like us even though we already give them millions of dollars. So we just need to stop this.

Also, can someone design a little figure, maybe like the ones jumping up and down, that says "Bush did it"? That way some of you could just click on the figure and wouldn't have to spend the time typing it out.




I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson

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Roger35
2500+ posts
08/13/10 07:21 PM
Re: Tax dollars to build mosques [re: BrothaHorn]

This is the first time I'm completely against Obama. He's now urging people that it's ok to build a mosque near ground zero! I wonder how the saudis would feel if we bombed the [censored] outta mecca and then build a church or synagogue a few miles away?!

Oh that's right, they don't allow that anyways.




The Link

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RomaVicta
10,000+ posts
08/13/10 07:50 PM
Re: Tax dollars to build mosques [re: BrothaHorn]

So Saudi Arabia is our new standard for religious tolerance?

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Statalyzer
25,000+ posts
08/14/10 05:34 PM
Re: Tax dollars to build mosques [re: BrothaHorn]

And this thread veers right back off the road again...




"You were once a professor of psychiatry specializing in helping paranoid and homicidal lunatics suffering from delusions of grandeur."

"Yes, but now I work for the United Nations."

"So your work has not changed?"

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Bevo Incognito
5000+ posts
08/14/10 05:44 PM
Re: Tax dollars to build mosques [re: BrothaHorn]

So we can afford to drop bombs on mosques but we can't afford to rebuild mosques?




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majorwhiteapples
2500+ posts
08/14/10 07:33 PM
Re: Tax dollars to build mosques [re: BrothaHorn]

How is this Bush's fault again?

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Statalyzer
25,000+ posts
08/15/10 01:12 AM
Re: Tax dollars to build mosques [re: BrothaHorn]

In reply to:

So we can afford to drop bombs on mosques but we can't afford to rebuild mosques?




Mosque, church, temple, synagogue, cathedral, whatever, it's not our job to pay for other countries to refurbish their own religious / historical structures.




"You were once a professor of psychiatry specializing in helping paranoid and homicidal lunatics suffering from delusions of grandeur."

"Yes, but now I work for the United Nations."

"So your work has not changed?"

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allweatherHorn
2500+ posts
08/16/10 09:21 AM
Re: Tax dollars to build mosques [re: BrothaHorn]

I would think that whether we had a hand in destroying a building would play a role in whether it was a good idea to rebuild it. Absent that circumstance, I have a hard time seeing this is anything but a bad idea for a whole host of reasons.

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2003TexasGrad
500+ posts
08/16/10 04:30 PM
Re: Tax dollars to build mosques [re: Roger35]

Roger, who is this "we" that you speak of? If "we" drop bombs on Mecca..... I dont get it. Did a country attack NY on 911? Did "Allah" attack NY on 911? Are the people building the NYC mosque from some country that was directly responsible for the 911 attacks? Was the WTC a Christian building that is holy to Christians, or Jews for that matter?

There is absolutely no parallel to "we" bombing Mecca and 16 crazy Muslims flying planes into the WTC.....

Back to the point of the thread, the US (us the taxpayers) should not be spending any money on building any religious buildings in other countries. That is for private groups to do on their own dime. Not ours.

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Bevo Incognito
5000+ posts
08/16/10 05:02 PM
Re: Tax dollars to build mosques [re: BrothaHorn]

In reply to:

How is this Bush's fault again?





The tax dollars needed for the rebuilding of these mosques were approved while he was president.

Or was that a rhetorical question?




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majorwhiteapples
2500+ posts
08/16/10 08:11 PM
Re: Tax dollars to build mosques [re: BrothaHorn]

In reply to:

The tax dollars needed for the rebuilding of these mosques were approved while he was president.




Really, the information that I have researched goes like this:

The Federal organization that provided these funds began in 1946, was revamped in 1961. The funding for this specific project began in 1998 and has continued into 2009.

I will give you that some of these funds were approved during GWB's administration the events leading to approval were set in motion before he was elected.

Please let me know if I have misunderstood how USAID pays for projects like these no or in the past with our tax dollars?

Oh one other thing, explain to me how this is GWB's fault?

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