Fandom is very much a "what have you done for me lately?" culture, isn't it?
I think you are forgetting what a train wreck last season was. During '06-'07 logical arguments can be made that Barnes didn't do a bad job. I disagree. We are so far removed from '02-'03 that two somewhat undermanned Elite 8 teams don't outweigh the disappointments that occurred when we had the best college basketball player ever (for a single season) and a Top 10 draft pick PG, and when we had possibly the greatest assembly of talent on the 40 Acres.
I think you are forgetting what a train wreck last season was.
How could anyone possibly forget the utter implosion that occurred earlier this year? It was essentially a repeat of the 2008-09 season, only worse, because the expectations were higher.
That said, if needlessly reminding me of the disastrous past season summarizes your beef with Barnes, then you have reinforced my rhetoric of fandom being a "what have you done for me lately?" culture.
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Only for those of us who hold the team to high standards.
Barnes is the reason those standards are high. Before him, Texas basketball was transient, an upstart that caused trouble every few years but ultimately got out of the way when the established powers arrived on the scene.
So while I am terribly disappointed with the results of the past two seasons, I am still appreciative of the man who has done more for Longhorns hoops than anyone else, and it saddens me that so many others are not.
But I am not surprised. After all, such is the nature of fandom.
Without Barnes KD and DJ don't even consider UT. Add in TJ, PJ, Thompson, Hamilton, Bradley, and Joseph as well.
Barnes has made UT a household name in basketball and has opened up recruiting outside of Texas more than anyone expected when he came to UT.
While I think we should have done better last year than a 1st round exit, I'm not sure we had as much talent as everyone likes to believe. Our ONLY center averaged less than 7 rebounds a game, couldn't defend a Pick and Roll, and couldn't play more than 4 minutes at a time. Our PF's were 6'6 and 6'7. We didn't have a PG. We had 2 Freshmen that were selfish and couldn't guard anyone. We had 2 guys that wouldn't shoot at all. And, we had 2 season ending injuries. Oh, and we were one of the worst FT shooting teams in the nation.
To me, that's not a Final Four team, or an Elite 8 team.
That said, if needlessly reminding me of the disastrous past season summarizes your beef with Barnes, then you have reinforced my rhetoric of fandom being a "what have you done for me lately?" culture.
You're picking and choosing one part of my post...."what have you done for me lately?" extends for a few years. Barnes had a decent run in '07-'08 but got run out of the gym by Memphis in the Elite 8. A decent year, considering we'd lost KD, but it came on the heels of a disappointing 9-loss season (team was better than record, I admit) in '06-'07, and was followed up with 2 bad seasons - the last one disastrous. So, what has he done lately? In your mind, I assume you'd give Barnes the benefit of the doubt for the 7 seasons that've occurred since our Final Four:
'03-'04 - decent Sweet 16 run after we'd lost TJ. Team led by great college player (PJ) and decent players (Mouton, Ivey, Buckman, and even Taylor, Boddicker & Klotz). A decent team, but no stars that went on to the NBA. I'll give Barnes a B.
'04-'05 - Horrible year. 11 losses - 1st round exit in conf tourney and NCAA tourney - to Nevada and that future NBA star Nick Fazekas. On our squad, we had 2 NBA players in Gibson and Aldridge (I don't care if they were freshmen; Gibson was a star from the beginning at the college level, and Aldridge was a #3 overall pick and is proving why). We also had PJ, who is one of the most underrated college players ever, and solid college players Buckman, Taylor and Klotz. Barnes deserves a D here.
'05-'06 - A disappointing end to a great season. LSU got hot and beat us in the Elite 8. After an embarrassing #1 vs. #2 loss to Duke in December, we go 13-3 in arguably the toughest Big 12 conference lineup to date. At this point, Aldridge was a college star, and he and Gibson and team leader PJ alternated leading scorer roles game to game. Team includes Buckman. B/c of lack of depth, lack of PG (wasn't an average Paulino running point for much of the year?), and future Texas star Abrams only a freshman, I'd give Barnes an A, but we had no business getting blown out by Duke, at home to Tenn, on the road at OSU, and in the conf finale against KU, who worked us - a team we'd murdered in our gym by 25 a few weeks before. And, I'd maintain we were much more talented than LSU. But undermanned teams lose in the Elite 8 every year - just ask Kentucky. Barnes gets a B for this season.
'06-'07 - We have replaced NBA star Aldridge and NBA'er Gibson with future Top 5 player (and possible HOF'er) Durant and future NBA starting (and productive) PG DJ. We also have, as a freshman, future NBA player Damion James, who, despite being a freshman, foreshadows great scoring ability and leads the team in rebounding 7 times, and sophomore Abrams, who leads the team in scoring 4 games (which is shocking upon reflection with Durant and DJ in the same lineup). We lose 10 games, though, the conference is very salty, and 3 of those games are in OT to tourney teams. Because we have the best college basketball player (in a single season) of all time, and we lose to a vastly outclassed USC team in the 2nd round, Barnes could receive a D or worse. I'll give him a C-, due to the youth of and lack of depth on the team. I feel I am being generous here.
'07-'08 - Barnes' best season considering we lost KD and made it to the Elite 8. But we had a lot of firepower for a college team - two future NBA sophomores in DJ and DJ, and a scoring machine in junior Abrams, an out-of-nowhere great season by Atchley, and decent big man depth with Dex. We go 13-3 in conference, lose to KU in conf tourney game, win 31 games, and are outclassed by a stud Memphis team in the Elite 8. I'll give Barnes a B+. Could give him an A-, but I was generous with my '06-'07 grade, and these are my grades.
'08-'09 - We have an NBA'er in James, a bona fide college stud in Abrams, and we lose 12 games and go 9-7 in conference. This season makes clear that, more times than not, Barnes will field average teams without a star point guard. Atchley regresses substantially. Despite our two stars and decent big men Gary Johnson and Pittman, we are a slightly-above-average team that gets bounced by Duke in the 2nd round. C-.
'09-'10 - NBA players James, Bradley & Pittman, and possible future NBA'ers Hamilton and Brown (not to mention solid post player GJ) cannot stop us from sliding from #1 and 17-0 to 24-10 to a first round bouncing. F.
Sum that up and in the 7 years since our Final Four run, despite the presence of 7 NBA players (4 of which are Top 10 picks - one on his way to the Hall of Fame), 1 that will be there in Hamilton and a 9th possible with Brown; two stud college players (PJ & AJ); and a host of other good players (Mouton, Ivey, Buckman, Gary Johnson), we have an average record of 25-9 in college hoops, which is the equivalent of going 9-4 in football. Texas basketball the last 7 years has been like Tech football, only we have much more talent. I cannot see how some of you aren't more disappointed. Our average record from '98-'00 in football was 9-4 - with a few great players (Ricky) and some tremendously hyped players (Simms, Redding) - and many disappointing losses. I maintain the talent level for football at that point was nowhere near what the talent level for basketball has been in any 3-year average period the last 7 years. Yet, somehow, we had these ridiculous expectations of Mack. Barnes seems to get much more of a free pass. I assume that goes with the territory of being a football school.
Still, for the 7-year period, Barnes has an average grade of a C. Great recruiter, very average coach.
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Barnes is the reason those standards are high. Before him, Texas basketball was transient, an upstart that caused trouble every few years but ultimately got out of the way when the established powers arrived on the scene.
Agreed for the most part, but Penders had some really good runs with undermanned squads. Barnes has certainly elevated recruiting - I'll get to that in my next post - but without a floor general like TJ, Barnes does less with more - much more at his disposal. Barnes has taken this squad to the next level, but I'll be very (and pleasantly) surprised if he ever takes the team to the next level. If he left, we'd be fine - we are at the top of the Big 3 sports, and we'd grab a top notch guy to replace him. That guy certainly wouldn't fare worse than last year.
Without Barnes KD and DJ don't even consider UT. Add in TJ, PJ, Thompson, Hamilton, Bradley, and Joseph as well.
That is true. Barnes is a great recruiter. Only TJ, however, should have left school satisfied.
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Barnes has made UT a household name in basketball and has opened up recruiting outside of Texas more than anyone expected when he came to UT.
Once again, I agree about your recruiting nationally. He's done a tremendous job in that area. Texas is only a household name in basketball in households extremely diehard about college hoops. We are not Kansas. Not UNC. Not Duke. Not Mich St. Not UCLA. Not Kentucky. Not anywhere NEAR those schools. I mentioned Tech earlier, purely out of record. However, we are like the hoops version of Virginia Tech or Georgia - we always manage to get wins, but we are consistently over-hyped, and unlike those comparisons, we have much more talent.
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Our ONLY center averaged less than 7 rebounds a game, couldn't defend a Pick and Roll, and couldn't play more than 4 minutes at a time.
Yet, he was an NBA draft pick. Barnes' program couldn't do anything with him in 4 years except slim him down, so that the NBA could develop him, b/c Barnes sure as hell didn't.
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We didn't have a PG.
We generally are average when we don't have an elite PG, another Barnes coaching specialty. Given his recruiting ability, why doesn't he go out and get someone? I know TJ and DJ don't grow on trees, but it doesn't take one of those guys to make it work.
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We had 2 Freshmen that were selfish and couldn't guard anyone.
Thank God Hamilton and Brown were on this team. Otherwise, we'd have lost a lot more than 10 games.
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We had 2 guys that wouldn't shoot at all.
Why did Barnes even play Mason and Balbay over guys like Brown and Hamilton? Loyalty to very average players to the tune of 10 losses? Genius.
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And, we had 2 season ending injuries.
Yep, Varez Ward going down killed our season. Who was the other - Balbay? Man, that's like Tom Brady going down.
Edit: 3 players in Top 10, and Aldridge was #2, not #3. Of course KD was #2, and DJ was #3. Overall, 5 first rounders, with Avery and Damion at #19 and #24, respectively, this year. Pittman was #32 overall this year, and Gibson was #42 overall in '06.
Edit #2: I completely forgot Ivey was a 2nd round pick in '04. #37 overall.
Rex, we agree mostly on Barnes not being a great coach I believe. We also view in a similar manner that while he is the reason for excitement, getting a group of people excited preseason just to tear them to shreds with disappointment (due to various reasons, certainly not ALL Rick's fault) isn't necessarily "better."
I disagree with your assessment of many of the teams that you listed, especially the one that got trounced by USC. We've had this argument on here before, and you are entitled to your opinion of course, but to call that USC team that was up on UNC by 20 "outclassed" is just silly. That team was loaded...LOADED with talent. Experienced and bigger than us as well.
Rex, I'm sorry but I've got to call you out on a few of your posts. Now I was as disappointed as anybody of the results from last season and almost started firerickbarnes.com. I saw 08-09 as a rebuilding year and last year bothered me because of all the talent squandered and what it would've done to recruiting in this state where the talent is going to be unbelievable in the next few years.
With all that said, you're trying to kill Barnes for 04-05 but fail to mention that Aldridge only played about half the season as he had a season-ending hip injury at the beginning of conference play. You also failed to state in the same year PJ Tucker was academically ineligible for the second semester. You used these two as the main examples for all the "talent" we had yet they didn't play half the season. So that team was essentially all Gibson & Buckman with a little of Klotz, I actually saw that as one of Barnes' best coaching jobs just to get them into the tourney.
Many people look at 06/07, see KD and Augustin and wonder how we didn't win a championship. Well this isn't the NBA and you need balance and experience as well as talent to win and we didn't have that. That team had no depth, no inside presence and no experience. KD and Damion James were the #1 and #3 rated SF in the 2006 class according to Rivals, yet they played exclusively at PF/C as freshman with little to nothing behind them for 40 mins and you expected that team to do much more?? In comparison, Texas had 7 fish on that team and UConn had 8 fish the same year with a class of Stanley Robinson, Curtis Kelly(now at K-St.), Jerome Dyson, Gavin Edwards and Hasheem Thabeet. That UConn team didn't qualify for the NIT with Jim Calhoun at the helm, while Texas with Rick Barnes won 25+ games, earned a top 4 seed in the NCAA tourney and did it with essentially a prep school team.
Thanks for addressing the Aldridge-Tucker issue, GQ. I was going to type a response, but you beat me to it and were much more cordial than I would've been.
Rex, I love your name (I own the movie!), but I think you are letting the disappointment and resentment of the past couple of years cloud your recollection and critique of Barnes' performance. It's the worst sort of revisionism, but it is, as I have stressed, what fans do.
I screwed up on the '04-'05 season. I completely forgot about PJ. I don't remember LaMarcus being out that long but my memory has already been exposed. So, let's give him a B. That elevates his average grade to a C+.
I will be picking several parts of your post to disagree with you. See below.
'03-'04 - decent Sweet 16 run after we'd lost TJ. Team led by great college player (PJ) and decent players (Mouton, Ivey, Buckman, and even Taylor, Boddicker & Klotz). A decent team, but no stars that went on to the NBA. I'll give Barnes a B.
******** This is a team that beat the next year champion UNC in what all experts predicted a UNC win. A team that overachieved after losing the college player of the year who was a pg (TJ).******
'04-'05 - Horrible year. 11 losses - 1st round exit in conf tourney and NCAA tourney - to Nevada and that future NBA star Nick Fazekas. On our squad, we had 2 NBA players in Gibson and Aldridge (I don't care if they were freshmen; Gibson was a star (****who couldn't play pg****) from the beginning at the college level, and Aldridge was a #3 overall pick and is proving why). We also had PJ, who is one of the most underrated college players ever, and solid college players Buckman, Taylor and Klotz. Barnes deserves a D here.
***This is a complete and utter mischaracterization as already pointed out by others. Aldridge hardly played and Mike Williams was prevented by NCAA for over a month before playing and then he got injured. The good about this season is that Academics program stabilized once Rhonda Randle took over.*****
'05-'06 - A disappointing end to a great season. LSU got hot and beat us in the Elite 8. After an embarrassing #1 vs. #2 loss to Duke in December, we go 13-3 in arguably the toughest Big 12 conference lineup to date (****I'd say years of 2 FF teams--KU, OU, and UT-- with Mizzou and OU also EE's as two toughest years by far****). At this point, Aldridge was a college star, and he and Gibson and team leader PJ alternated leading scorer roles game to game. Team includes Buckman. B/c of lack of depth, lack of PG (wasn't an average Paulino running point for much of the year?), and future Texas star Abrams only a freshman, I'd give Barnes an A, but we had no business getting blown out by Duke (****recognition that Gibson could not play pg****), at home to Tenn (****again Gibson at pg sucked****), on the road at OSU (****no big deal-osu was playing for a spot in March****), and in the conf finale against KU (****KU can savor that moral victory after losing to 13 seed Bradley), who worked us - a team we'd murdered in our gym by 25 a few weeks before (****frankly who gives a [censored] about Conference tourneys*****). And, I'd maintain we were much more talented than LSU (****yes we should have beat them, but lost in ot--[censored] happens****). But undermanned teams lose in the Elite 8 every year - just ask Kentucky. Barnes gets a B for this season.
'06-'07 - We have replaced NBA star Aldridge and NBA'er Gibson with future Top 5 player (and possible HOF'er) Durant and future NBA starting (and productive) PG DJ (****this is [censored], he is a back up who when the starter left, they traded for a new starter****). We also have, as a freshman, future NBA player Damion James, who, despite being a freshman (***and a 6'6' pf***), foreshadows great scoring ability and leads the team in rebounding 7 times, and sophomore Abrams, who leads the team in scoring 4 games (***how many times was he plus 2 on assists***) (which is shocking upon reflection with Durant and DJ in the same lineup). We lose 10 games (how many early when freshman were adjusting), though, the conference is very salty, and 3 of those games are in OT to tourney teams. Because we have the best college basketball player (in a single season) of all time, and we lose to a vastly outclassed (****[censored] as pointed out in other posts****) USC team in the 2nd round, Barnes could receive a D or worse. I'll give him a C-, due to the youth of and lack of depth on the team. I feel I am being generous here.
****this is the bill simmons argument and it has been refuted many times, but most ably by examining the UConn comparison****
'07-'08 - Barnes' best season considering we lost KD and made it to the Elite 8. But we had a lot of firepower for a college team (***a team that experts picked to be no better than 15***)- two future NBA sophomores in DJ and DJ, and a scoring machine in junior Abrams(***again how good of a team player was he***), an out-of-nowhere great season by Atchley, and decent big man depth with Dex (****more like a faint presence that leaned on immobile bodies****). We go 13-3 in conference, lose to KU in conf tourney game, win 31 games, and are outclassed by a stud Memphis team in the Elite 8. I'll give Barnes a B+. Could give him an A-, but I was generous with my '06-'07 grade, and these are my grades.
****My problem with Barnes was that he screwed with the minds on this team after UCLA game by making Augustine the closer. It worked to get an EE, but they might have been better even with a 5'9 and 5'11 backcourt*****
'08-'09 - We have an NBA'er in James, a bona fide college stud in Abrams, and we lose 12 games and go 9-7 in conference. This season makes clear that, more times than not, Barnes will field average teams without a star point guard. Atchley regresses substantially (****hurt plus sliced tongue where he couldn't eat a regular diet for weeks, thus losing what little strenght he had****). Despite our two stars and decent big men Gary Johnson (****missed half of season to heart problem****) and Pittman (****showed something in last 5 games, but before that was unreliable****), we are a slightly-above-average team that gets bounced (****[censored], lost by a few points and had a chance if not for a questionable foul call on James****) by Duke in the 2nd round. C-.
****Team also beat Final Four Villanova neutral and Wisconsin on road earlier, but Barnes again does the mind-freak and team struggles with no closer****
'09-'10 - NBA players James, Bradley & Pittman, and possible future NBA'ers Hamilton and Brown (not to mention solid post player GJ) cannot stop us from sliding from #1 and 17-0 to 24-10 to a first round bouncing. F.
*****Yes, last season was a clusterf*ck******
Sum that up and in the 7 years since our Final Four run, despite the presence of 7 NBA players (4 of which are Top 10 picks - one on his way to the Hall of Fame), 1 that will be there in Hamilton and a 9th possible with Brown (****both who missed a full season of basketball before joining Texas****); two stud college players (PJ & AJ); and a host of other good players (Mouton, Ivey, Buckman, Gary Johnson), we have an average record of 25-9 in college hoops, which is the equivalent of going 9-4 in football. Texas basketball the last 7 years has been like Tech football, only we have much more talent (****I would say EE is equal to a BCS bowl, so that is much grander than Tech****). I cannot see how some of you aren't more disappointed. Our average record from '98-'00 in football was 9-4 - with a few great players (Ricky) and some tremendously hyped players (Simms, Redding) - and many disappointing losses. I maintain the talent level for football at that point was nowhere near what the talent level for basketball has been in any 3-year average period the last 7 years. Yet, somehow, we had these ridiculous expectations of Mack. Barnes seems to get much more of a free pass. I assume that goes with the territory of being a football school.
Still, for the 7-year period, Barnes has an average grade of a C. Great recruiter, very average coach.
****First 4 years, B+, Last 3 years C-. With last three years there seems to be a pattern of underachieving. So, this is the season that counts. If he goes beyond expectations, then the trend will be reversed with incoming studs next year. If he meets low expecations or falls short of those then he won't get to enjoy the fruits of next year. *****
elface, that was extremely impressive. I agree with basically everything you said, though I'm not giving Atchley a pass because he cut his tongue. Normal diet or not, it's not like that affects his shooting which was utterly abysmal. Good job though. That must have taken a long time.
maars: 04-05 was the team that lost it's best player (Tucker) and it's most talented player (Aldridge) halfway through the year. Gibson had to do everything on the team and I felt the weight of the program on him just watching the games. Buckman came on strong, but there's only so much two guys can do. Texas was rolling into gear right when Aldridge got hurt and Tucker got suspended and that was one of the times I've been most excited about UT hoops.
Sad to see what happened with Gibson basically losing all ability to play PG and us having no backcourt depth/PG leadership the next season. I can only imagine how good 2006/2007 would have been if we had the momentum to build on from the year before. We also got screwed over by the Mike Williams debacle, as he got way behind in development and then transferred to Cincy where he was a solid player. Same with Dowell to Houston.
If your arguement is that Dex was a great college player because he got drafted, then you're an idiot. He's 6'10 with soft hands. It was the 2nd round. NBA teams thought so highly of him that Daniel Orton got drafted in the 1st round after avg. 3 ppg and not starting.
As for Brown and Hamilton, I could actually argue that they might have won more games had they not played as much. Our offense wasn't the problem. We had one of the highest ppg in the conference. But our defense sucked! It sucked because we had these two out there. This also explains why Mason and Balbay played at all. They wouldn't have if Brown and Hamilton played D, weren't worried about their #'s, and seemed even a little interested in their team winning games. Call me crazy, but as a coach I'd rather play the guys that work their ass off everyday, know their role, and actually want to win more than pad their stats.
And obviously I know that losing Ward and Balbay weren't killers to our season. My point was that when you add them to the rest of the list it helps explain why we weren't as talented as people like to believe.
Oh, and most teams aren't great with [censored] PG's. I shouldn't have to explain why, but if you need me to I can. They usually aren't good with 6'6 PF's, selfish players, and a lack of Defense and FT shooting.
I don't doubt chemistry was lost, maybe morale was low. Losing PJ was a huge blow. But Aldridge was only active for 16 games as a freshman and his contribution was minimal. Aldridge averaged less minutes than Paulino. Barnes' should have been able to do more with his veteran senior leadership. They had a pretty effective perimeter shooting unit in Sydmill Harris & Kenny Taylor. Klotz and Buckman brought a serviceable inside game and DGib...well, he was the best player on that team and I agree he was under a lot of pressure as a freshman, but he stepped up and handled it well. Barnes should have built the supporting players around Daniel. That squad was solid enough though even without a true PG that I think they could have been coached up through the Aldrige/Tucker loss. The Big 12 was pretty weak that year. They should have won more conference games. Dropping two to a 14-16 Colorado team was really what sold me on the F for Rick. They easily could have beaten Nevada too.
The Mike Williams situation was indeed a debacle but I think was more about Mike Williams than anything or anyone else. He did stand out a little more at Cincinnati, but not much. Mikes problems were his. I don't hang Mike or Deon on Barnes'. Still give him an F for that season though.
They could have beat Nevada and almost did. That team was doomed when P.J. and LA "went down." LA played less than Paulino only after he got hurt (22.2 MPG vs. 22.3 MPG, Kenton's went up as the season went on). He was playing really well up until the time he got injured (9.9 PPG, 5.9 Reb), in my estimation. No way you could have expected a team to rebound efficiently from circumstances like that unless you have a miracle-worker on your team. No coach in the country could have turned that around.
Barnes has had three players drafted in the top ten since the FF team, not 4--Durant, Aldridge, Augustin, and he had those for a total of 4 1/2 seasons, with the 1/2 season not being during tournament time, and with Durant and Augustin playing together as freshmen as the only time two of those guys were on the floor together.
Sub. 50% shooting centers who average less than a rebound every 5 minutes and get to the line less than twice a game while playing nearly 30 minutes, aren't really an asset. That Klotz had to play 29 minutes a game says volumes about the 04-05 team. I liked Klotz and really appreciated him for his effort, but he was a below average D1 center. Calling him "serviceable" is being kind.
They should have won more conference games. Dropping two to a 14-16 Colorado team was really what sold me on the F for Rick.
An F... really?
They were 17-3 with Tucker and Aldridge -- a future B12 POY and a top lottery pick. They also lost Paulino and Harris for significant time after that. They wound up with little depth. And yet, when people were writing them out of the tournament, they went to Stillwater, on Senior Night and beat a No. 2 seed.
Good posts, 3ball. Once Barnes took over and showed what he could do – winning the B12 with a thin but talented team – I always thought of Penders as being the exhausted relay runner who could barely get the baton to the next guy.
Barnes took it and has brought the program to the point where fans are ticked off because he can’t produce at what they think should be the highest level with some of the best raw talent in the nation. These are players who never would have considered Texas if not for the foundation that Barnes was able to lay, with TJ Ford being the capstone.
I’m getting tired of rehashing last year, but it’s all we have until next year, so, yeah, the pieces did not fit. A good PG would have whitewashed some of the problems and probably gotten the team to the S16. That’s still less than I thought, but I also expected more progress from Balbay/Brown, etc. Bradley played the role Barnes gave him. I don't think it was the right one, but he ran out of gas by the end of the season. They’ll be dealing this year with their basic failure to recruit and develop depth across the front line. That is on Barnes also.
Still, Rex, I think your grading is much too harsh. Barnes has not been able to keep his most of his talent together for a reasonable time. He didn’t have an “extra” season of DJ, for example, like Bill Self got with Brandon Rush when he got hurt. Without Rush, they don’t win the NC. Damion James was the exception, not the rule.
The best players Barnes has had, by and large, have not been ranked at the very top of the recruiting lists, even though your underlying theme is that he didn’t get enough out of the players that he had. TJ wasn’t, Aldridge wasn’t, Gibson wasn’t. The only top-10 guys I can find on a reasonably quick review at RSCI are Durant (No. 2), Bradley (No. 4), and Tristan Thompson (No. 9).
I saw you relying on Dexter Pittman being drafted as an indication that Barnes underachieved with him. P.J. Tucker went in the second round as B12 POY, and he lasted less than a year in the league. Pittman is quick for his size and can stand up to NBA centers on the defensive end – that’s what the NBA sees in him, I think. He never became an offensive threat. He can’t score more than an arm’s length from the basket. He hasn’t been a threat on the pick and roll. I hope he does well, but all things considered, he wound up being a disappointment. But there have been a lot more positives over the years…. Tucker and Ivey being drafted at all, Ford (thought to be about the sixth-best PG in his class, yet being NPOY and going in the top 10), Augustin going in the lottery when he was barely top 30 in his class. Pre-TJ, you had Chris Mihm making All-American and going lottery when he was barely top 100.
I am not arguing that he hasn’t recruited good talent. (There are several RSCI players in the teens.) I am not arguing that he hasn’t messed it up to a major extent. What I am saying is that if you really think Barnes has done a “C” job over the last seven years, he still has a top-10 program. (Bottom of list, true, but still on the list.) I’ll help, if you’re wondering about the list… UNC, Duke, KU, UConn, Memphis, MSU, Pitt, UCLA, Villanova, Texas and Florida. After that comes Louisville, Kentucky, Wisconsin, Gonzaga, Syracuse, West Virginia, Ohio State… etc. He’s been making the tournament when a lot of these teams have been missing. If Barnes gets a C, everyone else flunks. When EE teams get a B or B+, hardly anyone can pass.
Ok, Ok, I'll pass him. I forgot about Sydmill and Paulino going out. By the way, did you guys know that Sydmill speaks 5 languages and his dad is a famous jazz musician in Holland?
See, overmaars, I know you follow this stuff and even you forget.
One of the points I was going to make above was that even considering the dismal finish last year, Barnes was coaching a team that made it to No. 1. They don't just hand out those rankings -- we know that because it was the first one Texas ever had. They collapsed... Barnes takes that too. My guess is that he knew what kind of trouble they would be in before they lost a game.
I really don't know what's going to happen this year. Wish I did.
Sure; not everyone can play PG. However, look at Gibson's scoring performances from that year.
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***This is a complete and utter mischaracterization as already pointed out by others. Aldridge hardly played and Mike Williams was prevented by NCAA for over a month before playing and then he got injured.
I was unfairly critical of this team. It had much less to do, however, with Aldridge, Gibson or Williams and much more to do with PJ's departure.
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we had no business getting blown out by Duke (****recognition that Gibson could not play pg****), at home to Tenn (****again Gibson at pg sucked****), on the road at OSU (****no big deal-osu was playing for a spot in March****), and in the conf finale against KU (****KU can savor that moral victory after losing to 13 seed Bradley), who worked us - a team we'd murdered in our gym by 25 a few weeks before (****frankly who gives a [censored] about Conference tourneys*****).
So the fact that Gibson couldn't play PG effectively is your excuse for getting run out of the gym against Duke & Tenn, because OSU wanted a spot in the tourney is a plausible reason for us to lay down, and while I agree conf tourneys don't mean a whole bunch, b/c KU lost a #13 seed, it's okay to get blown out by them? Interesting thoughts. I conceded we had a pretty good team that year and gave Barnes a B. Not sure why we're making bull [censored] excuses for the teams' poor efforts, which will come in virtually every year from time to time.
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(***and a 6'6' pf***)
Ha. Since when is that a weakness at the college level, esp. when we routinely saw DJ - a phenomenal athlete - dominate the glass game in and game out? Always thought DJ was 6'7'' anyway.
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(how many early when freshman were adjusting)
3 losses before conference season (Nova loss occurred after we'd played 4 conference games). So, not many. We lost a lot of games - albeit some close ones - throughout the season.
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Because we have the best college basketball player (in a single season) of all time, and we lose to a vastly outclassed (****[censored] as pointed out in other posts****)
Not bull [censored] at all.
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a scoring machine in junior Abrams(***again how good of a team player was he***)
So you are proclaiming how much this team overachieved by discounting the efforts of a guy who averaged 18 or so points a game for us? Look, AJ was an undersized off guard who was a streaky shooter. His job was to shoot, and he did it well a lot of the time. He was never a point guard - we had DJ for that. He served his role well in '07-'08.
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(****[censored], lost by a few points and had a chance if not for a questionable foul call on James****)
Bounced was my term for "dispatched" or simply "got beat." Didn't mean to imply we got destroyed which clearly we did not. But Duke did have a 5-10 lead the entire second half, was in control of the game, and we lost by 5. At no point did I think we were going to win. And Duke was not a great Duke team that year by any stretch.
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(****I would say EE is equal to a BCS bowl, so that is much grander than Tech****)
Fair enough. We've reached 2 BCS bowl games in the 7 years since our FF. That's still not enough with the talent we've assembled. I stand by the C+. Does not sound like we are THAT far off (you may assign him an overall B- if I may be so bold). I agree with some of your comments.
If your arguement is that Dex was a great college player because he got drafted, then you're an idiot. He's 6'10 with soft hands. It was the 2nd round. NBA teams thought so highly of him that Daniel Orton got drafted in the 1st round after avg. 3 ppg and not starting.
That is not my argument. I simply observed the fact that Dex was a draft pick, and we didn't get much out of him at all during his time here. I agree with the comments you and elf made about Dex. He was no Chris Mihm (though he could have a better NBA career) while he was here. And yes, I recognize the talent drop off from Round 1 to Round 2 (really, after the first 15-20 picks, depending on the draft year), and the NBA's penchant for drafting size above talent.
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As for Brown and Hamilton, I could actually argue that they might have won more games had they not played as much. Our offense wasn't the problem. We had one of the highest ppg in the conference.
I can point to individual games we would have lost without those guys (being replaced by the likes of Balbay and Mason). And yeah, they were both defensive liabilities at times, and our in-conference D suffered a bit. But they were young, and are going to struggle in areas. I don't automatically chalk that up to being lazy and self-interest. They clearly out-talented their upperclassmen counterparts, and there were times when they didn't even see the floor (see, Wake Forest).
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Oh, and most teams aren't great with [censored] PG's. I shouldn't have to explain why, but if you need me to I can. They usually aren't good with 6'6 PF's, selfish players, and a lack of Defense and FT shooting.
Wow. First, we have never had "[censored]" PGs. Second, my comment was without a great PG (TJ, DJ), Barnes' teams usually underachieve ('06 being an exception). The jury is still out on whether Brown can be a great PG, but with Brown at the helm, we broke down defenses. Even Balbay could have been a serviceable starter (i.e., not "[censored]"). And to partially blame last year's team on a 6'6'' PF that poured his heart and soul into every game and was absolutely dominant? Just wow.
I liked Klotz and really appreciated him for his effort, but he was a below average D1 center. Calling him "serviceable" is being kind.
I disagree. He was, however, what should be a "serviceable" backup with the kind of talent we've accumulated over the years, so I agree with the direction you were heading (about Dex). Klotz could have been a serviceable starter at a number of D-1 programs, some of which regularly make the tourney, purely for his D and rebounding. See James Thomas. What Klotz lacked in shot blocking he made up for in nice post moves that JT always lacked.
Bob in Houston, you make some good points about the exact player rankings. I am surprised that LaMarcus wasn't in Top 10, though. And while I knew TJ and Gibson (and DJA) weren't Top 10 guys, I surely thought they were close. You have to keep in mind that up until recently, a lot of those Top 10 guys would go straight to the pros. And, while there are a lot less scholarship hoopsters relative to football, there are a lot more programs (and the NBA up until recently) to choose from. Point being, we've still recruited very, very well, and we have fallen flat in most years.
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I saw you relying on Dexter Pittman being drafted as an indication that Barnes underachieved with him.
Perhaps; read my previous posts. I think Dex was drafted for his size only - not because the Heat scouts thought he was some diamond in the rough that couldn't be developed in college. Still, it doesn't change the fact that Barnes did nothing with him, other than get him to slim down, which didn't translate into anything more than medium-sized stretches of playing time.
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What I am saying is that if you really think Barnes has done a “C” job over the last seven years, he still has a top-10 program. (Bottom of list, true, but still on the list.) I’ll help, if you’re wondering about the list… UNC, Duke, KU, UConn, Memphis, MSU, Pitt, UCLA, Villanova, Texas and Florida.
Whoa, on what metric? Tourney consistency? I don't care about tourney appearances and 20-win seasons. Aside from a few seasons, we had that with Penders (and stop before you reply; I concede Barnes has elevated the program from Tommy). All of those teams except for Memphis and Pitt have a national championship, and Memphis lost in the final game (something we have never achieved). If it's current program heath, we have to be below Pitt, but ahead of Memphis. I know Florida has had some down years, but they had back-to-back titles. How are we above them? Metrics please...
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After that comes Louisville, Kentucky, Wisconsin, Gonzaga, Syracuse, West Virginia, Ohio State… etc. He’s been making the tournament when a lot of these teams have been missing.
If this is a tourney consistency thing, I have to say that's a goofy metric. It's like saying Tech has a better football program than Bama. That's the only metric, and again it's a goofy one, where one could conclude we have a better program than Kentucky, Cuse, Louisville, and even Ohio St. We are on par with the Pitts, Wisconsins, and WVUs of the college basketball world, and are slightly ahead of Gonzaga.
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When EE teams get a B or B+, hardly anyone can pass.
Making the EE is quite an accomplishment. if we went 11-2 in football and got blown out by say Oregon in the Fiesta Bowl (like we did versus Memphis), would we conclude that season an A? Probably not. A "B" is a good grade in my book. "A" is reserved for a special year and we hadn't had one in quite a while.
So the fact that Gibson couldn't play PG effectively is your excuse for getting run out of the gym against Duke & Tenn, because OSU wanted a spot in the tourney is a plausible reason for us to lay down, and while I agree conf tourneys don't mean a whole bunch, b/c KU lost a #13 seed, it's okay to get blown out by them? Interesting thoughts. I conceded we had a pretty good team that year and gave Barnes a B. Not sure why we're making bull [censored] excuses for the teams' poor efforts, which will come in virtually every year from time to time.
To me your argument is ignoring the forest for the trees. And you are doing this because you want to tilt your argument that Barnes underachieved that year. I think he did not. The team had some [censored] performances (Duke and Tennessee), but they also beat a highly ranked Villanova and Memphis team, before winning the conference. And they beat those teams by the adjustments that Barnes made (switching to a zone defense and playing Gibson off the ball).
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Ha. Since when is that a weakness at the college level, esp. when we routinely saw DJ - a phenomenal athlete - dominate the glass game in and game out? Always thought DJ was 6'7'' anyway.
I loved James' tenacity, but there were issues to his game. He was a horrible helpside defensive player and not a very good defensive positional player. How many times did James use his awesome athletic ability to get balls (a lot); how many times did he block out (none that I recall). A 6'6 pf can succeed in college, but the most effective ones have the fundamentals. And Barnes deserves equal blame here.
We'll just have agree to disagree on the USC game.
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So you are proclaiming how much this team overachieved by discounting the efforts of a guy who averaged 18 or so points a game for us? Look, AJ was an undersized off guard who was a streaky shooter. His job was to shoot, and he did it well a lot of the time. He was never a point guard - we had DJ for that. He served his role well in '07-'08.
That team did overachieve, because it essentially was a team with two one-dimensional players with Abrams shooting and James rebounding. Mason and Atchley played very well that year, but the linchpin for the success of that team was Augustine. If you remember the regular season we played everybody close and then Augustine would lock it away with valued possessions. The following year we played the same way, almost every loss was close, but then we'd expect Abrams to hit a 3 with two people in his face. This is my biggest criticism of Barnes in that he turned the team away from a team concept (apex being Tennessee and UCLA games of the EE year) to relying solely on Augustine. Augustine became a lottery pick because of that design and we made it to EE, but I would have liked to see more development and trust of the rest of the players. I think that is the trend that I don't care for from Barnes in the last three years.
The sense of ferocity and toughness that Barnes teams played with in the past is what I liked about him as a coach. I haven't seen that in the last two years and it frustrates the heck out of me.
To me assigning him an overall grade (no problem in grading the seasons) misses the point in sizing up Barnes, because of the yawning gulf between the last two years and his prior history. And as a Texas fan I care where he's trending to and not whether he is a better coach than the next coach out there.
To me your argument is ignoring the forest for the trees. And you are doing this because you want to tilt your argument that Barnes underachieved that year. I think he did not.
Once again, I thought we had a pretty good year. For the talent, an OT EE loss was about right. So, no - I do not think we underachieved. I just can't get over some of the blowouts, and won't make bull [censored] excuses for them. There is no reason we should get killed by 25 in the conf tourney to anyone, esp to a team we killed earlier. There is no reason we should get killed by a team simply because that bubble team wants to play in March. And that #2 team should not have been murdered by the #1 team b/c our off guard can't play PG. Coaching deficiencies. Not an A season; a B one. Doesn't mean we underachieved.
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He was a horrible helpside defensive player and not a very good defensive positional player. How many times did James use his awesome athletic ability to get balls (a lot); how many times did he block out (none that I recall). A 6'6 pf can succeed in college, but the most effective ones have the fundamentals.
I do not think I can disagree more. Countless times DJ would fly from across the lane to swat away a ball after a guy drove by a guard (whether on the break or in a halfcourt play). I'd wager most times you think DJ wasn't playing proper help side D is when he was dragged to the perimeter to guard a SF or perimeter PF. Blocking out is important for guys who do not have the talent to rebound - it is a fundamental that is vastly overrated for the superior athlete. Ask Barkley what he thinks about blocking out. Go after the ball with a secondary focus keeping your ass on your guy. Hard to argue with that philosophy in Barkley's case, or in DJ's. Dude averaged 10 boards a game in the last 3 years of school, and 7 a game in limited time with Durant in his freshman year. Durant was known to grab a board or two in college, you know. The rebounding comment astounds me. Disagree with me about blocking out (most will, but most hadn't played the game), but to assert a 6'6'' guy can't successfully rebound at the college level without blocking out flies in the face of the fact that DJ was one of our most prolific rebounder if not the most prolific rebounder - certainly in his time here - but possibly in the history of the program.
As far as Damion being a one-dimensional player, he never was that at all. His scoring increased every year there, but even during his freshman season, when he wasn't called upon to score all that much due to Durant, it was easy to tell - even for the casual observer - that he had great scoring ability. Hell, even with Abrams and Augustin, he averaged 13 ppg in his soph year (the year you reference him being "one-dimensional"). That is almost as astounding as the rebounding comment.
I will explain my "[censored]" PG statement. I don't think Balbay or Brown are [censored] players. I DO think Lucas is, but that's not important. My statement is more then as a group, not individually. Balbay doesn't shoot, isn't aggressive on Off., and doesn't have to be guarded. Therefore, he does a [censored] job of running the offense. Especially a pick and roll offense. Brown does a good job of penetrating, and he looks for his shot. The problem is that he plays selfish at times. He gets on a roll and scores, but he hardly ever has a nice assist #. Therefore, he does a [censored] job of running the offense.
As for Dex, him getting drafted should be a sign of what Barnes accomplished, not used against him. I know for a fact that Dex was not heavily recruited. There was ZERO thought of him becoming a NBA player. ZERO!! His production was not very good, but that's not Barnes' fault. If they played Mason and Balbay then the Def. could triple team him. If they played Brown and Hamilton, he could be wide open and they wouldn't throw him the ball.
Last, I never blamed our season on Damion and Gary. I said teams "USUALLY" are not great with 6'6 PF's. That's a fact. List the National Championships that have been won the last 30 years with 6'6 PF's. Arkansas won with Corliss Williamson, but the other big men were 6'10 and very solid. Can't think of anyone else.
Oh, and comparing Memphis basketball (at that time) to Oregan football is comical. We didn't lose to a terrible team. They set an NCAA record with 38 wins that season.
If they played Mason and Balbay then the Def. could triple team him. If they played Brown and Hamilton, he could be wide open and they wouldn't throw him the ball.
I think it's a wee bit more complicated than that.
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Oh, and comparing Memphis basketball (at that time) to Oregan football is comical. We didn't lose to a terrible team. They set an NCAA record with 38 wins that season.
You're reading way too much into my Oregon hypothetical. First, Oregon is not a horrible football program at all. Second, Memphis was damn good that year. Third, you missed the point entirely.
It is nice to have some basketball conversation centering on the team.
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I do not think I can disagree more. Countless times DJ would fly from across the lane to swat away a ball after a guy drove by a guard (whether on the break or in a halfcourt play). I'd wager most times you think DJ wasn't playing proper help side D is when he was dragged to the perimeter to guard a SF or perimeter PF. Blocking out is important for guys who do not have the talent to rebound - it is a fundamental that is vastly overrated for the superior athlete. Ask Barkley what he thinks about blocking out. Go after the ball with a secondary focus keeping your ass on your guy. Hard to argue with that philosophy in Barkley's case, or in DJ's. Dude averaged 10 boards a game in the last 3 years of school, and 7 a game in limited time with Durant in his freshman year. Durant was known to grab a board or two in college, you know. The rebounding comment astounds me. Disagree with me about blocking out (most will, but most hadn't played the game), but to assert a 6'6'' guy can't successfully rebound at the college level without blocking out flies in the face of the fact that DJ was one of our most prolific rebounder if not the most prolific rebounder - certainly in his time here - but possibly in the history of the program.
Flying in to swat the ball away is not by itself an example of help defense. Atchley played terrific help defense and had a lot of blocks, (he didn't have the strength to play positional defense) but he prevented a lot of opportunities.
James and Dex always went for the swat many times giving up easy rebounds or easy scores, thus making marginally good players go by them with ease. Check out the Arkansas game last year.
I watched the replay of KU and UT (shown earlier this year) in James' freshman year and he played better team defense then than he did the three subsequent years.
You raise a fair point about blocking out. The Kansas State game last year is a brutal reinforcement of my point about James' problems with rebounding. Balbay and Bradley did a great job of shutting down their explosive guards, but Kansas State killed us on the boards getting repeat opportunities while their forwards punished James and Texas' big men. I seem to recall this happening against Baylor three times and A&M twice. Aminu who experts compared James to, outplayed James substantially in the Wake Forest game.
I hope James does well at the next level, but he needs to improve his defensive fundamentals.
The Kansas State game last year is a brutal reinforcement of my point about James' problems with rebounding.
James has no problems with rebounding. The accusation is absurd. So he had an off-game against KSU and only grabbed 7? Doesn't change anything. One example of a poor performance doesn't indicate anything.
James has no problems with rebounding. The accusation is absurd. So he had an off-game against KSU and only grabbed 7? Doesn't change anything. One example of a poor performance doesn't indicate anything.
I like James and appreciate all four years that he played. And James was not the problem for last year's debacle, but he had more than one bad game.
Even though it's true there are lies, damn lies and statistics, I have more trust in Pomeroy's statistics for college basketball than internet gurus . Check out James' profile and ranking for rebound efficiency.
Major Contributors (24-28% of possessions used)
5 Damion James
This isn't particularly important to the conversation, but T.J. was top 5 in the nation (overall) and the number two point guard behind Kansas' very own Aaron Miles. Not sure why Bob was underrating him so much, but whatever. Aldridge was consensus top 10 and Gibson was around top 15. Just thought I'd point that out, because it is somewhat pertinent to Bob's point that Barnes gets the most out of his less-recruited players. That's simply untrue.
Barnes' top 5 players: Durant, Ford, Augustin, James, Aldridge/Mihm. All high recruits.
So is that a way of disagreeing? Because it sounds more like you just proved my point. Augustin was five star until he moved to Texas, when his ranking plummeted. Typical rankings scam that was quickly exposed by the start of his college season. And I never mentioned Gibson...
Not really agreeing or disagreeing, Blake. Just adding some specific numbers. I think too often we all have ideas about what happened in the past and fail to do a little fact checking against our perceptions.
I think in general that Barnes has gotten pretty good but not remarkable results from his players. I also think that Texas fans (me included) tend to view the incoming players optimistically. I don't think Barnes has heroically transformed average talent into high quality Div 1 teams, but I don't think he has failed to get better than just reasonable results from his players. I do think the perception of Barnes as getting more from less in the first half of his tenure at Texas and less with more has an air of validity to it, but I'm not sure that perception shouldn't be more greatly tempered than it is by a recognition that college freshmen generally don't win championships, no matter how talented they are.
I do think Barnes has failed to get much progress from his interior recruits over the last 4 years, and that troubles me greatly. Outside of Atchley developing a pick and pop game and Pittman managing to stay on the floor for 19 minutes a game as a senior, the growth chart of Texas players not named Durant and over 6'7" tall is a flat line. On the other hand, I think the idea that DJ Augustin came here as an unquestioned super guard talent is somewhat a fallacy.
(Oh, and you did mention Gibson).
The last two years have been disappointing; there's no doubt about that, but the idea that Barnes has squandered an incredible wealth of talent is more than just a bit over the top.
Now, if he doesn't do better over the next couple of years, I'll be ready to revise that opinion, but I'm currently questioning whether Texas will have any kind of effective interior game over the next two seasons.
Wow, you're completely right about that Gibson comment. I don't know what I was thinking. Sorry.
I guess I feel very similarly to you in regards to Barnes.
Pros: He's helped to energize fan support/enthusiasm for the team, he's put us in contention for very high ranking recruits year in and year out, he's obviously succeeded in some way with the Final Four appearance and Elite Eight appearances, and he seems very loyal to his current job.
Cons: He seems to lose contact with his players and grind them into the ground, he's a terrible offensive coach, he can't coach zone defense very well, he consistently underperforms "expectations," his development of big men lately has been laughable.
My apologies if I came off as defensive, Don. That wasn't my intention.
Even though it's true there are lies, damn lies and statistics, I have more trust in Pomeroy's statistics for college basketball than internet gurus . Check out James' profile and ranking for rebound efficiency.
So DJ was the 221st ranked player in offensive board efficiency, and Dex was #6? That is a great statistic. You know, Barnes should have given Dex 75% of the minutes available, and DJ 47%. I am sure that would have resulted in similar "efficiency" rankings. That deal is mostly farce because there is no consideration for minutes played, other than a minimum of 40% of minutes played to qualify. Not a very telling statistic.
Are you really trying to convince us DJ was not a great rebounder? Seriously?
Pros: He's helped to energize fan support/enthusiasm for the team, he's put us in contention for very high ranking recruits year in and year out, he's obviously succeeded in some way with the Final Four appearance and Elite Eight appearances, and he seems very loyal to his current job.
Cons: He seems to lose contact with his players and grind them into the ground, he's a terrible offensive coach, he can't coach zone defense very well, he consistently underperforms "expectations," his development of big men lately has been laughable.
This is pretty much how I feel except for two parts. One, anyone can coach 2-3 zone. The problem is that you need length for it to be effective. We haven't had that. We started two guys under 6'0 in the backcourt for a couple of years and 6'6-6'7 PF's for the last few years. We also haven't had very athletic Centers to protect the rim. All this equals a bad zone. I listened to Scott Drew speak in May and he laughed about how they NEVER worked on their 2-3 zone that carried them to the Elite 8. He said it worked so well because of how long and athletic they were. Look at Syracuse and they are usually long and athletic.
Second problem I have is that I think the "expectations" are usually unrealistic on our part. The past few pre-seasons we have discussed what our weaknesses are but then we put on our orange tinted glasses, live in the clouds for a few months, and then get pissed when those weaknesses are exposed.
Overall, I think the Pros outweigh the Cons. Doesn't mean I don't think he has weaknesses because he definitely does. Just think that when he came here we dreamed of a Final Four, Elite 8's, and recruiting on a national level. Now that he's delivered that, all some want to do is focus on the negative.
bierce: The puking facts comment made me literally laugh out loud. I personally don't know what's wrong with giving a factual basis for an opinion, so that's an odd sentiment for whomever that was.
3ball: That's crazy (if true) about Baylor not practicing that zone. I know their team was basically handpicked from Heaven for that defense, but to not even practice rotations (other than just scrimmaging in practice) and trap principles and to still be that dominant is pretty impressive IMO.
Yeah, I thought so too. He said they spent their defensive segments working on man to man drills. He felt like there was some carry over.
Drew also said that a lot of their weaknesses in the zone where covered up with their length, which I totally agree with. I was at the Baylor/ Duke game and I swear Anthony Jones was WAY too high on the backside all game. But because of their length I don't think Duke could tell. If they did, they didn't make Baylor pay.
The irony is that until they were picked to win the league (which I think was 2006), Barnes teams basically surpassed expectations every year except '05, when they lost Tucker and Aldridge at midseason. I can grab my summary somewhere.
And, save for '08, when they had Augustin at PG, his better teams have had decent numbers of upperclassmen. I haven't looked it up, but I suspect this is true, by and large, for coaches generally.
When you don't have experience (or a decent PG), you don't have a big margin for error. I go back and forth on how bad last season was... how can you get to No. 1 -- for the first time in school history -- and think of it as a bad season? If they'd lost to UNC or Michigan State, or both, for example, people might have seen 2010 for what it was going to be.
"Puking facts." Gotta love that.
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That's crazy (if true) about Baylor not practicing that zone.
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Who was the other - Balbay? Man, that's like Tom Brady going down.
