HugeTexasFan
25+ posts
11/26/02 10:49 AM
|
|
I've gotten tangled up in an argument on a different message board and thought maybe some of you could help give me some background ammunition.
I have a Sooner claiming that Texas was the last school to desegregate and have black players. I don't think that is true, and in fact, I though I remembered one of OU's coaches being a well-known rascist and refusing to recruit black players. I could be inagining this, so I don't want to respond in ignorance. Can anybody shed some light for us younger or less educated folks on the history of segregation and desegregation at UT and OU, espcially with regard to the football teams?
Your help is appreciated!
Post Extras:
|
HorninDallas
500+ posts
11/26/02 10:59 AM
|
|
Granted I'm not old enough to know this for sure, but I have been told by some back-country Southerners (mountains of GA) that they always liked UT and the coaches there because we were the "last great all-white" football team.
Post Extras:
|
utxjohne
1000+ posts
11/26/02 10:59 AM
|
|
That actually is true. Texas was the last major university to field an all white team.
Post Extras:
|
nysooner
25+ posts
11/26/02 11:05 AM
|
|
I thought UT was pretty well known for its "all white" teams. The attached link is a pretty nice description about the first african american to play at the University of Oklahoma for one of Bud Wilkinson's teams.
The Link
Post Extras:
|
utstudboy
1000+ posts
11/26/02 11:34 AM
|
|
UT has the last all white NC ( I think).
I thought that Alabama was the last all white team.
Post Extras:
|
HorninDallas
500+ posts
11/26/02 11:40 AM
|
|
I just remembered. Get out your 2001 media guide, not sure if it is also in the 2002 one, and they even say that UT was the last all-white MNC. I was shocked when I read it, I couldn't believe they would print that.
Post Extras:
|
LonghornGirlie
2500+ posts
11/26/02 11:49 AM
|
|
It is a sad and embarrassing fact that UT was the last all white team to win a National Championship. OU integrated several years before UT did and that is to their credit. That was a long time ago, and when the entire nation was struggling with this issue in many areas.
Today, UT is one of the most integrated campuses as well as athletic teams and coaching staffs. For all of his faults, Mackovic made a very strong statement in this regard. He walked into a team meeting, looked around, and told them that he would come back when they looked like a team. He walked out and it took them a while to figure out that the white guys were on one side and the black guys were on another. He returned and started the meeting after the team had figured it out and mixed it up. Chris Simms has said that one of the reason he came to Texas was the team unity and color blindness. Cory Redding is on record as saying that he's never seen any racism at UT.
UT has put its past behind and become a leader in regard to race relations.
----------------------
Hook 'em Horns
Post Extras:
|
srr50
500+ posts
11/26/02 12:11 PM
|
|
BTW the year that Texas was the last "all-white" NC team, freshmen were not eligible.
Julius Whittier was a member of the freshman squad that season.
And while we are at it, we ought to mention running back Lonnie Bennett. Royal has mentioned that Lonnie was an important recruit, because without Lonnie he doesn't think Roosevelt Leaks comes here, and without Roosevelt, Earl may not have been comfortable coming here,
In other words Lonnie let others know that an African-American athlete could not only survive here, but flourish.
"We must become the change we want to see." - Mahatma Gandhi
Post Extras:
|
LakewoodRaider
500+ posts
11/26/02 12:28 PM
|
|
This is true. Dale Hansen was talking about it on the radio the other day.
Post Extras:
|
Mesohorny
1000+ posts
11/26/02 12:58 PM
|
|
Texas being the last "all-white" MNC is now just a footnote in history.
It is what it is: history.
No more relevant 32 years later to the present University of Texas than "all-white" cafes, restrooms, water fountains, public schools.
No one should be "shocked" by it. Unbelievable, maybe, to the younger crowd, but that's the way life was......and still is in many respects in America 2002 (but that's for the West Mall, not here).
Post Extras:
|
utstudboy
1000+ posts
11/26/02 12:59 PM
|
|
Virginia did not integrate until 1971
Post Extras:
|
Lone Star
1000+ posts
11/26/02 01:04 PM
|
|
This occurred 34 years ago and we are still talking about it? As to why this continues to resurface -- I can’t tell if it is nostalgia or intended as some kind of mark of shame by our opponents?
That being said, I think Texas should strive to be the first major university to win a MNC with a non-white football team – no white scholarship nor walk-ons. We can add that to our legacy so we have both bases covered.
-----
"Son, if you pull for this team, be prepared: they are going to break your heart many times."
Post Extras:
|
echeese
2500+ posts
11/26/02 01:05 PM
|
|
What is sad is how many don't realize how far this country has come in a very short period of time.
srr, thanks for the footnote.
"Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company" Mark Twain
Post Extras:
|
HorninDallas
500+ posts
11/26/02 01:07 PM
|
|
I'm not "shocked" that it happened, some team had to be the last one. I was "shocked" that we had it in our media guide in 2001. Go read it, it is written in an almost bragging way (if I remember correctly).
Post Extras:
|
mileslong
2500+ posts
11/26/02 01:13 PM
|
|
In reply to:
I think Texas should strive to be the first major university to win a MNC with a non-white football team
why in the hell would UT want to "strive" for that? wouldnt it be more utopian to have a mixture of races?
Post Extras:
|
Lone Star
1000+ posts
11/26/02 01:13 PM
|
|
echeese --
No kidding. Talking to my parents’ generation at times feels like I am talking to people from 1866. We have come a long way in 35 years but still have a long way to go.
-----
"Son, if you pull for this team, be prepared: they are going to break your heart many times."
Post Extras:
|
RabidLonghorn
250+ posts
11/26/02 01:32 PM
|
|
Wasent A&M the last major College to allow black players?
When the Longhorns win the Mnc I will fall to my knees and thank god for blessing the best college in the world.
Post Extras:
|
skihorn
250+ posts
11/26/02 01:56 PM
|
|
We were not as far behind as some of these posts would imply. From reading previously on this subject, DKR recruited several black athletes before he actually landed one. He wanted the first to be a very special player who not only had the talent but also the thick skin necessary. It is sad that for any reason we were not leading the way. However, we weren't exactly years behind the other schools in the south. To their credit OU was a little ahead. Sometimes a win-at-all-cost attitude leads to a good decision.
<BR>
Post Extras:
|
84Horn
250+ posts
11/26/02 01:58 PM
|
|
UT's 1969 team was the last all-white NC team.
Our 1970 NC team was NOT all-white.
Post Extras:
|
HugeTexasFan
25+ posts
11/26/02 02:42 PM
|
|
Thanks you for your replies. I wouldn't say I'm shocked, but I didn't realize how little I knew about the history.
Post Extras:
|
bullzak
2500+ posts
11/26/02 03:23 PM
|
|
I believe that DKR recruited Don Baylor in the mid-60's before he chose pro baseball.
"WE'RE READY" --DKR
Post Extras:
|
skihorn
250+ posts
11/26/02 03:31 PM
|
|
I also remember reading that we had a black player on the '67 or '68 squad who at least made the team picture. He had no siginificant playing time. Can anyone verify this? If true it backs up our integration date a few years. It still blows me away that I was alive at that time. Although I do vaguely remember the '69 season, I sure don't remember it being all white nor do I remember the integration soon thereafter. I guess it wasn't talked about or at least not in circles that included young children. How far we have come.
<BR>
Post Extras:
|
fluegelhorn837
100+ posts
11/26/02 03:34 PM
|
|
OU a little ahead? OU recruited a very fine running back in 1958, and his name escapes me, but he had an excellent career with the St. Louis Cards. He died recently of natural causes.
Post Extras:
|
fluegelhorn837
100+ posts
11/26/02 03:39 PM
|
|
I knew I would remember his name after the previous post. His name was Prentiss Gautt. Also probably all-American.
Post Extras:
|
skihorn
250+ posts
11/26/02 03:47 PM
|
|
Okay, more than a "little" ahead. However, if we did have a player on before the '69 squad (still awaiting confirmation) and we recruited others in the mid-60's than the gap isn't as great as many claim. Anyway, props to OU. That is impressive. I hope it is still true that UT was more or less in line with other football powers from the south. Not that that is any real defense. I would have hoped that we had led the way. Obviously not. Again it is just hard to imagine that those times weren't that long ago.
<BR>
Edited by skihorn (11/26/02 03:48 PM)
Post Extras:
|
Holiday
100+ posts
11/26/02 04:13 PM
|
|
That is pretty amazing especially when you consider Iowa had black players in the teens and 20's and Nebraska had a black player in 1894. But as everyone has mentioned it's a Southern thing.........
I wonder when these all-white Texas teams first played against integrated teams and if there was resistance to that?
Post Extras:
|
BelgaSooner
First Time Poster
11/26/02 04:18 PM
|
|
Hi Horns. I read your site occasionally but don't post on opponents boards. This topic transcends football so I decided to join in.
A couple of stories--
Not sure of the time frame, but Bear Bryant knew that his school's unwillingness to play blacks was crippling his recruiting and that 'Bama football was deteriorating because of it. Since Bear knew that he couldn't compete with the fully-integrated football powers, and the powers-that-be wouldn't agree to integration, he took matters into his own hands and scheduled a game in Tuscaloosa against a USC team fielding black players.
USC whupped 'em, as Bear fully expected, and when admin and alum wondered what happened, he replied, ""Well, you saw 'em. If you won't let me get those players, that's what's gonna happen" (or words to that effect) and the result was that 'Bama got integration.
The second is not happy. Iowa State integrated 20 or 30 years before the Southern schools when a black player named Jack Trice enterred a game (circa 1932) in Minneapolis. The all-white Gophers decided to "take him out" and Trice was waylaid on a late hit, went to the hospital and later died. If DKR waited until he found someone with "thick skin," that makes alot of sense. In the 90s ISU named their stadium Trice Stadium.
I hadn't heard that Prentice Gautt had passed. That's sad news indeed. He was a true champion and gentleman and a credit to the University and State of Oklahoma.
Post Extras:
|
skihorn
250+ posts
11/26/02 04:36 PM
|
|
I've heard the Bear story also, although it does seem to get embellished as time goes on. It seems unlikey that he could plan that far ahead to schedule USC for that reason. I suspect he was playing them anyway and he did get beaten badly. He then used it as amunition to integrate. I think the Alabama have revised history to make the Bear look better. Possibly I am guilty of the same thing in defending DKR by saying he tried to integrate sooner.
What I would like to hear is from some people on campus in the 60's. Was it controversial or even an issue. Given the left element that has always been present at UT I'm amazed that it wasn't a big deal. Again, maybe it was a big deal but because of my young age I don't remember it. Of course, I don't remember Central High School, Selma or many other racial battles from the '50's and 60's but I am sure aware of them. It seems history does not talk about the integration of football very much.
<BR>
Post Extras:
|
skihorn
250+ posts
11/26/02 04:38 PM
|
|
Belga: I had not heard the Trice story. That is very touching that they named the stadium after him.
<BR>
Post Extras:
|
Holiday
100+ posts
11/26/02 05:45 PM
|
|
Actually Jack Trice's playing days were a little bit earlier Belga. He died in 1923.
Post Extras:
|
MrPhlegm
5000+ posts
11/26/02 06:04 PM
|
|
Lonnie Bennett played at Texas when I was going to school there. I didn't see or hear any negativeism towards him because of the color of his skin. I did see and hear some because he occadionally had some trouble holding on to the ball.
I would bet that the fact that the "last all white NC team" is mentioned as such in the Media Guide is the fact that it does get mentioned (I would imagine that that is brought up a lot during recruiting even now, sad to say) and we want to be aboveboard about it. We are diversified as all get out now, the LAWNCT is part of our past and we should not hide it.
Are you guys ready?Let's roll-Todd Beamer
Post Extras:
|
pmg
2500+ posts
11/26/02 09:26 PM
|
|
Willie Morris writes about the first negro to play in Memorial Stadium, sometime in the 50s, (maybe from Washington?) and says the home crowd gave him an ovation when he scored against UT. I asked my parents if that was true, and they said it was the way they recalled it, too.
The University community was more concerned with issues like integrating student housing I think than integrating the SWC. Besides, those calls are made by the money folks, not the UT folks.
Jerry Levias (SMU) coming to play as the first scholarship football player in the SWC so raised expectations they installed temporary bleachers in the south end zone (where I sat) to watch him. I think by that time the handwriting was on the wall.
I was twelve during the last UT national championship season, and it wasn't until twenty years later I realized that team was the last "all-white mnc team".
There has been a lot written about the integration of SWC athletics and UT in particular: see hereThe Link
Also, check out the Syracuse/Texas game in 1960. I've heard some ugly stories about that.
Post Extras:
|
skihorn
250+ posts
11/27/02 12:49 AM
|
|
Thanks PMG for the link.
<BR>
Post Extras:
|
BelgaSooner
< 25 posts
11/27/02 08:52 AM
|
|
"It seems history does not talk about the integration of football very much."
Yeah, that's true. I'd never heard the Jack Trice story until about 6-7 mos ago I read (part) of a pretty interesting book on the "social history" of college football. I'd cite it for you but all my stuff is on a boat right now, so sorry. It had quite a bit on the integration of college footbal, and the story was much different than I had anticipated. (You usually just get the PC version that all those Northern schools, where African-Americans were treated just like the white boys, sat around leering at us backward Suth'ners who wouldn't let the black kids play. But it's much more complicated. Yes, alot of Northern teams had a black player years before OU or TX, but most of the time, that was it. One black player. Seems like Trice was the last black player at ISU for about 20 or 30 yrs, but I can't say for sure. Maybe one of you knows.
If you're interested, you could probably find the book on Amazon with a search like "social history" and "football," because I bet there aren't too many books on that.
About the Bear story--It does sound a little fishy about the scheduling, and now that you mention it, it also sounds a little like it might be enhanced by modern Tiders. Could be.
And sorry I got some details wrong. I was writing from my head, and you know us Sooners aren't smart. But we can play football. 
Post Extras:
|
skihorn
250+ posts
11/27/02 01:15 PM
|
|
Belga: Thanks for joining in the discussion. You've added a lot to a subject that has always interested me, but I don't know much about.
<BR>
Post Extras:
|
7NCSOONER
25+ posts
11/27/02 05:22 PM
|
|
Prentice Gautt is not dead. he is very much alive and working for the Big 12. He will be at the Big 12 Championship to cheer on the Sooners.
"Son, if you come to Oklahoma, you'll play for the National Championship. If you don't, we'll play for the National Chamionship. - Barry Switzer
Post Extras:
|
srr50
500+ posts
11/27/02 07:54 PM
|
|
The USC team in question was a John Mckay coached squad led by Sam "Bam"Cunningham. Don't know if Bryant brought them in for the purpose of showing folks what needed to be done, but that was the effect.
BTW Bryant's return trip to LA was the first time he used the Wishbone -- and he always gave Royal credit for helping him make the switch.
"I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand." – Confucius
Post Extras:
|
Statalyzer
1000+ posts
11/27/02 09:22 PM
|
|
"It is a sad and embarrassing fact that UT was the last all white team to win a National Championship."
But we weren't the last all-white team. The other ones just sucked when we didn't.
Post Extras:
|
navblue
100+ posts
11/27/02 09:25 PM
|
|
Also if Longhorn (and other folks as well) want to read the history of UT-Austin intergration look for a book called " The Forty Acre Follies" by Joe B. Frantz- he was a former UT history prof and the book is just great. One of the reasons Coach Royal had problems recruiting black players was that there was a by-law handed down by the Board of Regents that forbade ANY UT coach from recruiting black players. I remember that issue coming up when they renamed the stadium after Coach Royal. I think the Texan mentioned that info.
"UNCOMMON VALOR WAS A COMMON VIRTUE"- Admiral Chester Nimitz speaking of the Marines at IWO JIMA-Feb 1945.
" When you cross that ol' Red River that just don't mean a thing; Cause once you're down in TEXAS the HORNS are still the King"- paraphras
Post Extras:
|
fluegelhorn837
100+ posts
11/28/02 08:03 PM
|
|
oops, thanks 7nc Sooner. I was sure that I had read about him in the obits, but I am happy that reports of his demise are premature. He was and is a fine chap and was a wonderful football player.
Post Extras:
|
fluegelhorn837
100+ posts
11/28/02 09:03 PM
|
|
Joe Frantz was a wonderful prof. I had for a history class and I will always remember something he said, and I paraphrase.
<The Democrats are really dumb---but the Republicans are dummer.>
He also wrote a biography of LBJ and may be still teaching at the university in Corpus Christi, or was, the last time I heard. I think the school is affiliated with ATM. I will not pronounce him prematurely deceased as I did Prentiss Gautt.
Franz wrote and taught in the rich Texas tradition of J. Frank Dobe, Roy Bedicheck and the other great UT prof(whos name escapes me at the moment) memorialized in statue at Barton Springs.
Post Extras:
|
pmg
2500+ posts
11/28/02 10:14 PM
|
|
Frantz died about ten years ago; he ended up teaching at CCSU (now Texas A*M at CC).
Post Extras:
|
Wesley
100+ posts
11/29/02 03:54 AM
|
|
srr50,
Sam '"Bam" Cunningham played for USC in the mid-70's. By then, Alabama had been ingregated for several years.
Post Extras:
|
Buckshot
100+ posts
11/29/02 09:58 AM
|
|
I was student from '67 to '71. The '69 team was the last all white team to win the national championship. This factoid was documented on the day after the win over ND in the Cotton Bowl by Houston Post columnist Mickey Herscowitz (sp?) who mentioned that that team would probably be the last all-white team NC. Ever since, it's been reported as true. And I beleive it is.
I do remeber some black students who were involved in recruiting black athletes to UT. They were guys Coach Royal had personally contacted to help him recrutie black athletes.
I am not sure if BYU had any black players on the NC team they had. Surely there were some or somebody wuld have made a federal case against thier being NC's with only white players.
Post Extras:
|
Salt City Sooner
250+ posts
11/29/02 11:29 AM
|
|
Don't know about blacks on their team (I would assume so), but I do remember they had a very good Samoan fullback named Lakei Heimuli.
"Who's your daddy Gerry?"
-Herman Boone-
Post Extras:
|
srr50
500+ posts
11/29/02 12:03 PM
|
|
Wesley: Nope -- read below
'fullback Sam “Bam” Cunningham, traveled to Dixieland on September 12, 1970 and thrashed Alabama, 42-21. Not only was Sam Cunningham a powerful runner, but he was the first player in college football to go over the top during a goal line stand. Later, former Bear Bryant assistant coach Jerry Claiborne noted, “Sam Cunningham did more to integrate Alabama in 60 minutes that night than Martin Luther King had accomplished in 20 years.”
"I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand." – Confucius
Post Extras:
|
MissouHorn
100+ posts
11/29/02 10:20 PM
|
|
I am a 1998 Texas grad and an African American. I am extremely proud of my Texas degree and cherish the memories of my years at Texas. I had and have friends from every ethnicity. My dormmate at The Dobie was white as well as my apartment roommate during my sophomore through junior years. I had never encountered any racial discrimination or anything of that nature. I am shocked that UT reportedly was the last non-integretated National Champion, but I do understand that was then (sign of our ugly past), and this is now (Texas is probably the most integrated of any of the Big 12 schools)!! I even read that Chris Simms was roommates with either Quentin Jammer or currently with Rod Babers, I am not sure which player, but I do know that the player is or was African American. That just goes to show you the racial unity and inclusiveness on this team now as compared to the times then. Especially when the highest profile player on the team (whom just happens to be white rooms with a fellow non-white player. I also read that Simms took Roy Williams and another African American player to his New Jersey home to meet his family and to show them around New York. I am truly glad that Simms decided to attend UT and ended his last home game on such a high note. Although he had his detractors, I was always a fan, and from all accounts that I have read and heard from friends of some of the athletes still on campus, he is one of the most down to earth people that one could ever meet.
Post Extras:
|
AllAg
250+ posts
12/01/02 03:11 AM
|
|
Actually Rabid, A&M was the FIRST team in the SWC to have black players....
Post Extras:
|
Shop the Co-op |
Email A Friend |
Contact Us
Pages in this thread: 
Rate thread
Print Thread
