Support our SPONSORS Home | Site Map | Shopping Cart Shop the Co-op | Email A Friend | Contact Us
Home
HornFansTV
Interactive
Sports
On The Field
In The Stands
Recruiting
Basketball
Basketball (W)
Baseball
Other Sports
Other
Cactus Cafe
West Mall
Quackenbush's
Rusty's Grill
Esther's Follies
Horn Depot
Swap Meet
Manor Downs
Prayer Requests
Horn Network
On The Road Again
Archives
Around Austin
Classics
PCL
Locker Room
Senior Salute
2001-02 Seniors
2002-03 Seniors
2003-04 Seniors
2004-05 Seniors
2005-06 Seniors
Other
Chat
Email
Links
Posting Guidelines
Football
Recruiting
Basketball
Baseball
Other Sports
Around Austin
About Us
Fiesta Bowl Tickets
Rose Bowl Tickets

Become a HornFans Sponsor

Archives
   >> Locker Room

Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | (show all)   Rate thread Print Thread
kablooey
2500+ posts
07/15/03 05:27 PM
Dennis: A History

(Might want to get yourself a cold one, because this is long. Hey, I have the day off and I'm bored. Sue me.)

Dennis: A History and Comparison with Mack Brown

Prologue

Let me begin by stating, again, that I believe Dennis is a very good coach and that I think he will improve the aggy program. But, like a lot of Horns, the praise of this nice coach has reached absurd levels and needs a rebuttal.

Now, aggy likes to point out Dennis’ 155-73-2 overall record. Aggy likes to point out Dennis’ 8 "conference" titles. They say that he “rapidly” turned these programs around from near chaos. All very fine points, but what really happened?

Let’s take a look at those records and then compare the last 11 years.

Southwestern (Kan.) College (14-4-2) NAIA

1981 5-2-2 2nd in Conference
1982 9-2 1st in Conference

I will be the first to admit that I have no idea where Southwestern was as a program before Dennis. Let’s assume that he was a miracle worker, just for the sake of argument. The man can really kick the [censored] out of NAIA talent. That's good. If you are at a program, you should be judged by how you do against commesurate talent, right?

Dennis is becoming a genius.

Pittsburgh (Kan.) State (53-6-0) Division II

1985 8-2 1st
1986 11-1 1st
1987 11-1 1st
1988 11-1 1st
1989 12-1 1st

Now this is where Dennis made his mojo. In football terms, at Pittsburgh State, Dennis strode the Earth as a Colossus. Fifty three wins! FIVE Conference titles in FIVE YEARS! He is not only a genius, he has a one-way ticket to the Hall of Fame.

One nagging problem though: despite all the victories, despite the five conference titles, Dennis never wins a national title in Division II. Never even got his dominating teams to the finals. Even Chan Gailey won a Division II title. (EDIT: Gailey may have won in Division III. I don't remember, but you get my point)

But ignore that, the man is a genius. He just needs his shot at the big time to prove it.

SWT (13-9) Division 1-AA

1990 6-5 3rd
1991 7-4 4th

Hmm. What happened? This is where the legend of Dennis takes a bit of a hit. Dennis jumps to another level and doesn’t set the world on fire. He took over an SWT program that went 4-7 and 5-6 in the two years prior to his arrival. His master skills didn’t overwhelm his conference foes either, as he went a bland 8-6 in conference play. Maybe he was on the McWilliams/Mackovic one game a year improvement plan.

OK, hold on the ticket to the Hall of Fame, but the man is still at least nearly a genius.

New Mexico (33-36)

1992 3-8 9th
1993 6-5 6th
1994 5-7 5th
1995 4-7 7th
1996 6-5 7th
1997 9-4 1st

Well, our little nomad finally makes the jump to Division 1-A, but he is still far from the big leagues. We’ll call it the Milwaukee Brewers league of NCAA football. He takes over a damn crappy program and rapidly turns into, well, a slightly less crappy program.

He caps off his miracle work tenure with a senior-laden ball club that tears up the WAC’s rugged Mountain Division, containing powerhouses like Rice, SMU, Utah, UTEP, Tulsa and TCU, and takes his plucky Lobo squad all the way to the 1997 WAC Championship Game.

In that lone Conference Championship game, “Mr. Game Day Coach” pretty much has his ass handed to him by Colorado State, 41-13. He follows that up with a loss to an appallingly mediocre 6-5 Arizona team in the prestigious Insight.com Bowl.

In that glorious division title season, Dennis beats two teams that finish with winning records. Both of those teams finish a stellar 6-5. In fact, during his entire tenure at New Mexico, six of Dennis’ 33 wins come over teams with winning records. He did, however, enjoy beating up on his old Division 1-AA brothers like Northern Arizona and Idaho State.

His job finished (and the cupboard completely bare), Dennis turns his sights to bigger fish, fellow WAC Mountain Division foe, TCU.

So, with commesurate talent at a Division 1-A school, Dennis produces a whopping 33-36 record. As a point of reference, Dennis' successor, Rocky Long, has compiled a 25-35 record during his fiveyear stint. After taking New Mexico to the Las Vegas Bowl in 2002, Rocky has led his Lobos to as many bowl games as Dennis.

TCU 25-10

1998 7-5 t5th
1999 8-4 t1st
2000 10-1 t1st

Like Moe Green, this is where Dennis makes his bones. The year before his arrival, the Horned Frogs are an atrocious 1-10. They suck, big time. Dennis comes in and makes immediate and dramatic improvement, including a scintillating 35-34 win over Air Force, the only victory over a top 25 team of his illustrious career. He caps the remarkable turn around season with a 28-19 victory in the Sun Bowl over what appeared to be a heavily drugged or at least constipated USC team. But a wonderful season all the same, late season losses to Rice and SMU notwithstanding.

In 1999, more improvement, as his team makes a one game leap over the previous season. Of course, there was another loss to Rice and to pretty much every strong team that TCU faced, such as 6-6 Arizona, 3-8 Northwestern and 8-5 Fresno State. But he did have a nice win over a better than terrible East Carolina team in the Mobile Bowl, and got revenge on dreaded SMU.

In 2000, Dennis puts his name back up there with the all time greats as TCU dominated the WAC. There was talk of a BCS “buster” as TCU was undefeated and making noise that it deserved a big time bowl game to match its arrival in the big time. That all changes when WAC juggernaut San Jose State (yes, that San Jose State) upsets the 14 point favorites, 27-24.

At TCU, Dennis wins 7 games over teams that finished with winning records, including the aforementioned victories over Air Force, USC and East Carolina. But what happened that year in the WAC? Hmmm. Anyone remember?

Well, in 1998 the WAC split up and the big boys started something called the Mountain West Conference. So, in his second season at TCU, the WAC went from little brother to weak sister conference overnight. Gone were big boys Air Force, Colorado State and BYU. The road to conference titles was greased and Dennis slid right through to glory.

Dennis takes his frustrations out on UTEP and SMU before getting the call to revive the Crimson Tide.

Alabama (17-8)

2001 7-5 3rd
2002 6-2 * (West Champs, but probation)

In aggy world, Alabama is at an all time low when Dennis comes to the rescue. In 2000, the preseason top 5 Crimson Tide limp in with a 3-8 record, despite the return of the majority of talent of the defending SEC Champs and #8 team in the country. That can happen when your head coach is nailed dead to rights in a sexual harassment suit and news of major NCAA violations hit just before the season starts.

Nevertheless, Dennis takes over this bunch of talented but broken Bama Boys and turns this truck around! With victories over BYU, Vanderbilt, Mississippi, East Carolina, So. Miss., LSU and Auburn, Bama marches triumphantly to the Music City Bow where they are promptly ass-raped by Virginia Tech, 38-7.

(EDIT: This is incorrect. He went to the Independence Bowl and beat a 7-5 Iowa State team 14-13. I do apologize for the error)

As the NCAA hammer comes down, Dennis tells his players to “Hold the Rope” and stick with Bama during these tough times. Dennis is nothing if not a smooth motivator. The 2002 Crimson Tide ride the Dennis Wave to success, almost beating Oklahoma, almost beating Georgia and almost beating arch-rival Auburn. 10-3 with victories over Tennessee, Middle Tennessee State, UNT, Southern Miss, Mississippi, Vanderbilt, Mississippi State, LSU and Hawaii is a very, very good coaching job for a team considered by many to have the #4 defensive line, #4 running back and #10 offensive line units in the nation.

In all, Dennis defeats 11 teams that finish the season with winning records, including 3 that win 8 whole games. Hawaii, at 10-4 in 2002, is the winningest team Dennis ever defeats as Head Coach of Bama

A Comparison Between Mack Brown and Dennis Franchione

So how does this compare to our Mack Brown, a man who clearly does more with less every season and isn’t really much more than a recruiter?

Aggy likes to point out Mack’s early struggles at UNC. Aggy also likes to point out the fact that UNC had top 10 teams 7 full years prior to his arrival as evidence that “Mack took over a pretty good program and didn’t turn it around fast enough.”

They don’t like to point out that Florida State joined the ACC just as his program began to show significant improvement. But I digress.

I know aggy is going to get upset by this, but I’m going to do it anyway. We’re going to unilaterally declare Dennis the greatest Division II coach in the history of organized football. We’re going to give him his props for his dominance of Pop Warner, I mean, NAIA football, and we’re going to ignore his rather pedestrian tenure in Division 1-AA.

What we’re going to do is compare apples to apples, Mack v. Fran during the last 11 years. If aggy wishes to go look up Mack’s first couple of years struggling in Division 1-A while Dennis was beating up on the Nuns of St. Alberta, be my guest. I don’t have THAT much time on my hands.

No, I just want to see how the two of them stack up these last 11 years. If one is a genius and one is a clod, that should be borne out by the numbers. Einstein should get better test scores than his classmates even if he is bumped ahead a grade.

Overall Record, 1993-2002

Mack: 94-33
Dennis: 75-54

Hmm. Interesting. I’m sure these other stats will prove Dennis’ pre-eminence.

Wins v. Top 25 Teams

Mack: 10
Dennis: 1

Well, not quite what I expected.

Bowl Appearances

Mack: 11
Dennis: 5

Ok, still Mack just probably beat up on completely lesser teams.

Wins vs. Teams with a Winning Record

Mack: 37
Dennis: 22

OK, this is getting interesting. In a tougher conference, facing tougher competition, Mack is still winning more. I would have thought that crappy teams would have had a chance to pad their records against similar crappy teams.

So much for Einstein.

Top 25 Finishes

Mack: 9
Dennis: 2

Wow, the genius hasn’t really taken his plucky little teams as far as I thought. To be fair, Mack took a powerhouse UNC team that had been out of the rankings and desolate for five years. Not quite the rebuilding jobs that Dennis has willingly undertaken.

In summation, Six of Dennis’ eight conference titles are in, no offense, the minor leagues. More tha 50% of his wins have come outside of Division 1-A. Fully one third of his career wins came in his five year domination of Division II.

In Division 1-A, he has won exactly one outright title, in a weakened WAC. He is a fine coach, but he has a long way to go before he can be considered “one of the best” in the nation, much less “2nd best in the conference.” When stacked up against similar Division 1-A talent, Dennis has been a good, not great, coach.

Commence aggy retorts.

Edited by kablooey (07/15/03 07:51 PM)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Email Post   Notify Moderator  Nominate for Classics

BigWill
5000+ posts
07/15/03 05:33 PM
Re: Dennis: A History [re: kablooey]

excellent post.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Email Post   Notify Moderator  Nominate for Classics

dollylama
< 25 posts
07/15/03 05:37 PM
Re: Dennis: A History [re: kablooey]

And yall say we obsess. Get a life.

By the way, I hope you realize you'll never get back the 5 hours it took you to write that.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Email Post   Notify Moderator  Nominate for Classics

El Torito
100+ posts
07/15/03 05:41 PM
Re: Dennis: A History [re: kablooey]

Kablooey, you are aggy kryptonite. . .




"Attention all planets of the Solar Federation. . .Attention all planets of the Solar Federation. . .We have assumed control. . .We have assumed control."

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Email Post   Notify Moderator  Nominate for Classics

HornySquirrelSponsor
1000+ posts
07/15/03 05:49 PM
Re: Dennis: A History [re: kablooey]

Perspective is always nice - great post!

"does more with less" - did you mean 'less with more'?





______
-HS (Class '93)

"The University of Texas... something others would die for if only they could have been born into it and not find themselves outside of it." - Roy4

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Email Post   Notify Moderator  Nominate for Classics

TXHookem
5000+ posts
07/15/03 05:58 PM
Re: Dennis: A History [re: kablooey]

That post gave me wood.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Email Post   Notify Moderator  Nominate for Classics

OrangeWarrior
5000+ posts
07/15/03 05:59 PM
Re: Dennis: A History [re: kablooey]

Way to represent Kablooey.

dolly-At least Kablooey isn't posting on a rivals' site you mindless puppet.




"Blessed is he who has learned how to laugh at himself, for he shall never cease to be entertained."

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Email Post   Notify Moderator  Nominate for Classics

thanksforplaying
250+ posts
07/15/03 05:59 PM
Re: Dennis: A History [re: TXHookem]

Good post.




Asian Tennis Reloaded

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Email Post   Notify Moderator  Nominate for Classics

OrangeGeorge
500+ posts
07/15/03 05:59 PM
Re: Dennis: A History [re: kablooey]

Devastating facts for aggy to face.That hissing sound you hear is the air coming out of the blow-up doll named aggy championship illusions.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Email Post   Notify Moderator  Nominate for Classics

XHW7
100+ posts
07/15/03 06:06 PM
Re: Dennis: A History [re: kablooey]

Uh oh, Spidey Ag gonna climp to the top of the "Zone" jump off and sodomize his ass on a goal post when he reads that.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Email Post   Notify Moderator  Nominate for Classics

AllAg
500+ posts
07/15/03 06:06 PM
Re: Dennis: A History [re: kablooey]

Must.....gasp.....Leave....cough.....Hornfans.......

Edited by AllAg (07/15/03 06:14 PM)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Email Post   Notify Moderator  Nominate for Classics

thanksforplaying
250+ posts
07/15/03 06:08 PM
Re: Dennis: A History [re: AllAg]

I get the gasp and the cough, but the aargh has me a bit confused.




Asian Tennis Reloaded

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Email Post   Notify Moderator  Nominate for Classics

dollylama
< 25 posts
07/15/03 06:10 PM
Re: Dennis: A History [re: kablooey]

Funny, I thought it was the air exiting the blow up Mac III doll that you dreamers have been humping since he brought his whiny charm to the hallowed 40 acres half a decade ago.

And you hypocrites accuse us of unfounded hype? Rich.

(Countdown til this post is yanked. 5 . . . 4 . . . 3 . . .)

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Email Post   Notify Moderator  Nominate for Classics

TXHookem
5000+ posts
07/15/03 06:12 PM
Re: Dennis: A History [re: kablooey]

Number of months 'til Mack is 5-1 against aggy... 5... 4... 3...

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Email Post   Notify Moderator  Nominate for Classics

OrangeWarrior
5000+ posts
07/15/03 06:13 PM
Re: Dennis: A History [re: kablooey]

Notice how the obsessed drone refuses to reply to the original post, knowing that he has just been [censored] slapped.




"Blessed is he who has learned how to laugh at himself, for he shall never cease to be entertained."

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Email Post   Notify Moderator  Nominate for Classics

thanksforplaying
250+ posts
07/15/03 06:14 PM
Re: Dennis: A History [re: dollylama]

Not to turn this into a Rivalries board, but we have two consecutive top 10 finishes, five straight 9 win seasons.

That's not hype, that's results. What do you guys have? A 1919 MNC and a fleet of whooping man-cheerleaders.




Asian Tennis Reloaded

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Email Post   Notify Moderator  Nominate for Classics

dpool2002
25+ posts
07/15/03 07:10 PM
Re: Dennis: A History [re: kablooey]

someone post that on the aggie site

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Email Post   Notify Moderator  Nominate for Classics

AllAg
500+ posts
07/15/03 07:14 PM
Re: Dennis: A History [re: kablooey]

You want a retort? Fine. Here are the records at the schools preceding DF, incuding the immediate season prior, followed by DF's record, including the record in his last year.

PITST 18-10 (5-4)
........ 53-6 (12-1)

SWTS 20-35 (5-6)
........ 13-9 (7-4)

NMEX 9-50 (3-9)
....... 33-36 (9-4)

TCU 24-42 (1-10)
...... 25-11 (10-2)

BAMA 24-23 (3-8)
....... 17-8 (10-3) including winning 14 of last 17 and having top Off and top Def in SEC.

Nuff Said!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Email Post   Notify Moderator  Nominate for Classics

dollylama
25+ posts
07/15/03 07:14 PM
Re: Dennis: A History [re: kablooey]

tfp -

You're really happy with Mac? I guess after watching the guys before him run a perennial powerhouse into the dirt, I'd be happy, too.

You know, I used to get depressed every July when I'd get my copy of Dave Cambell's and see the burnt orange smeared all over it. Not too worried this year. It must suck to keep taking out the prom queen year after year only to get that same [censored] peck on the cheek each time.

I know, I know, this year's going to be different.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Email Post   Notify Moderator  Nominate for Classics

MAC94
1000+ posts
07/15/03 07:28 PM
Re: Dennis: A History [re: kablooey]

Time will tell what coach Fran will do at A&M, maybe he is our David McWilliams, maybe he's our Bob Stoops. Really we don't know.

Coach Fran has done well where he has been in the past, so we'll see. Two things, though:

I'm not sure that comparing Fran's past track record with Mack is all that helpful. Before they became head coaches, the track records of Bob Stoops, Larry Coker, or Jim Tressel at leading a major D-1 program was spotty at best. They had either never been a head coach or had only won at a I-AA level/ None of these men would have compared well to Mack Brown before they coached their first game as a head coach at their respective University's. Yet, today, they all have something Mack doesn't.

That's not to say Fran will do the same. The odds are long against it, but the point is, we just do not know the future. We Ags are generally happy he is our coach. We'll see if it works out. You guys did not hire McWilliams to fair, and OU did not hire John Blake to lose. Time will tell on what coach Fran's legacy at A&M will be.

Second, its interesting that you Horns bring up Mack's record at UNC. One thing about that success that really hasn't been mentioned is that Mack's winning ways at UNC were really a product of a nasty defense that the Tarheels fielded (The UNC offense was not a worldbeater). And, the coach of that defense that led UNC to such lofty rankings will be wearing Maroon and White this season, Carl Torbush. So, in a way, your trumpeting of MAcks record at UNC aids the Aggie arguement on why we could rise back in the near future. A key coach from Mack's UNC days is now with us.




Gig 'Em and God Bless

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Email Post   Notify Moderator  Nominate for Classics

Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | (show all)   Print Thread

Jump to

HornFans Home | Contact Us


If you see any typographical errors (it's so hard to find good help these days), or have suggestions about this site, please send us feedback.

© 2000 - 2013 HornFans.com, LLC, all rights reserved. HornFans.com is an independent site and is not affiliated with The University of Texas Athletic Department or the Longhorn Foundation. Opinions expressed herein do not reflect the opinion of HornFans, the University of Texas, the Longhorn Foundation, Anheuser-Busch, Brown-Distributing, or any other of our sponsors, affiliates, partners or users.

Privacy Policy


Powered by Data Foundry