ViperHorn
1000+ posts
09/07/10 09:32 AM
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You are probably correct Mandingo. Something happened when the design was presented to the FIA. From some Tilke quotes over the weekend, he stressed that the FIA basically had the finally say, and that they ruled on everything from runn-off areas to FIM standards.
I suspect they were not happy about the run-off areas in a couple of places and Tilke's fix was to lengthen (less corner) a couple of curves so additional run-off couple be added. He would have had a short time frame to do this so he just pulled the stadium complex and made it work (he had plenty of room to work with).
MC: Willie, do you remember your first performance?
Willie: Hell, I don’t remember the one I just finished!
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mandingo
5000+ posts
09/08/10 06:35 PM
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12 hours?
What will these a-holes come up with next?
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ViperHorn
1000+ posts
09/08/10 06:54 PM
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That was the quote by Tavo's rep. at the meeting. In context, he was answering a question of how long to empty the site right now.
MC: Willie, do you remember your first performance?
Willie: Hell, I don’t remember the one I just finished!
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mandingo
5000+ posts
09/08/10 06:58 PM
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OK...didn't know that...but I figured it was essentially worst case scenario.
Were you there?
If not, do you have a different account of the meeting than the statesman's? Just curious. I'd like more info on this and can't find any.
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ViperHorn
1000+ posts
09/08/10 08:34 PM
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I was not there, but here is what I read. Link
The exchange was between Tavo's guy and the Commissioner, but it was the Commissioner who threw out the number when Tavo's guy could not answer her question.
12 hours to move 100k+ people in and out on a 2 lane road is about right. However from the discussion on the Link this is all about getting a maximum contribution from Tavo for the infrastructure improvements.
This is the rough part of the process. Until Tavo has 3 votes, he is going to have to listen to the dribble.
MC: Willie, do you remember your first performance?
Willie: Hell, I don’t remember the one I just finished!
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mandingo
5000+ posts
09/08/10 08:57 PM
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So in other words, this is a negotiation...
That's probably why Suttle was so vague about road improvement plans.
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ViperHorn
1000+ posts
09/09/10 06:30 AM
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Exactly.
MC: Willie, do you remember your first performance?
Willie: Hell, I don’t remember the one I just finished!
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accuratehorn
10,000+ posts
09/09/10 08:55 AM
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There will have to be road improvements, or all spectators should be shuttled in from remote parking areas. The current two-lane pothole filled windy cow path isn't even adequate for the new subdivisions out there. This is a big issue.
Knowledge is good
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mandingo
5000+ posts
09/09/10 10:32 AM
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Oh, there will absolutely have to be road improvements. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say otherwise.
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ViperHorn
1000+ posts
09/09/10 02:07 PM
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Everyone is agreed major infrastructure improvements will need to be made. Tavo is entering into the "who is going to pay" phase.
Mandingo I will make a crude drawing of what is needed is you can confirm/correct the following:
1. No 130 service road between ElRoy Road and 812;
2. No 130 ramp at McAngus and 130; and 3
3. How many lanes in each direction on Elroy Rd. between Mc Angus and 130?
Thanks.
Viper
MC: Willie, do you remember your first performance?
Willie: Hell, I don’t remember the one I just finished!
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mandingo
5000+ posts
09/09/10 03:26 PM
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OK, there is currently no service road between Elroy and 812.
There is no McAngus on/off ramp, but I'm not sure it would be worth the effort and expense to put them there, considering how close it would be to 812. I have also heard people talk about using Moore Road and Pearce Lane as alternate routes and on/off ramps that PD could divert people onto to get everyone into the facility. If they aren't contemplating using these ramps to create at least 4 completely separate routes to at least 4 completely separate entrances, then I'd be surprised.
Elroy is currently 4 lanes + turn lanes between 130 and McAngus, recently upgraded.
BTW, I noticed something watching that video at your link. What was going on in that Court was a bunch of posturing on both sides. Suttle knows good and well that his side has some plans for traffic. They just don't want to tip their hand because they don't want to reveal anything that might let the county or city know what they're willing to pay for those upgrades. The commissioners were trying to get him to tip their hand. Look at the News8Austin video and read Suttle's body language. Does that look like a guy who's the least bit bothered by any of this? That's a guy who has the upper hand and knows it.
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ViperHorn
1000+ posts
09/09/10 04:43 PM
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Thanks. I have a presentation to finish and over the weekend I will attempt to create a drawing that makes sense.
Yes the entire meeting was about posturing. Tavo's side had to see if the County was going to throw in anything for free; and the County had to see if Tavo was willing to fund basically all infrastrucutre in exchange for a quick permitting process.
MC: Willie, do you remember your first performance?
Willie: Hell, I don’t remember the one I just finished!
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l00p
25,000+ posts
09/09/10 06:19 PM
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You two are [censored] awesome, lemme tell ya. I am just reading the back and forths, playing with my chin and saying, "Ah, so!".
2010 NCAA Football TV Schedule (lsufootball net)
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mandingo
5000+ posts
09/09/10 09:56 PM
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Re: Formula 1 coming to Austin, Baby!
[re: l00p] |
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Viperhorn is awesomer than me.
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mandingo
5000+ posts
09/09/10 10:45 PM
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F1 Historic Race coming to Austin?
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Sure hope so.
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ViperHorn
1000+ posts
09/10/10 06:26 AM
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In reply to:
Viperhorn is awesomer than me.
I seriously doubt that.
MC: Willie, do you remember your first performance?
Willie: Hell, I don’t remember the one I just finished!
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mandingo
5000+ posts
09/10/10 03:16 PM
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Just for the heck of it, I sent an email to Joe Gieselman (joe.gieselman@co.travis.tx.us) asking how he came to these numbers. I don't expect a reply from this guy who's about to retire, but what the heck. As of now it's been 24 hours and I haven't heard anything:
In reply to:
Hello Mr. Gieselman,
My name is [--------]. I'm a resident of Travis County and am interested in the proceedings of the Commissioner's Court that was held on Tuesday. Specifically, I'm interested in the 12 hour ingress/egress figure you are credited with calculating.
I am aware that newspapers often get the facts wrong or omit important details, so I'd like to hear your end of the story.
If you don't mind my asking, how did you calculate that number? What was your method and why did you use 3 hours as a baseline for arriving at Texas Motor Speedway? How did you come to that figure and what was the distance traveled used in the calculation?
I have attended racing events at Texas Motor Speedway since the opening event when traffic was at its absolute worst. My personal experience is that it has never taken me three hours even to drive all the way from downtown Fort Worth to my parking space at Texas Motor Speedway.
Winston and Nextel Cup races have been the most attended events at TMS, with 150-200,000 people in attendance. Even during the inaugural Winston Cup race, the drive took less than 3 hours total and has only improved with every return since. For example, at my last Cup race, the drive from downtown Fort Worth, up I-35W to my parking spot, was just under an hour. At a June 2010 IndyCar race which was attended by about 75-80,000 people, my drive time from the exit off of I-35W to my parking spot outside TMS was approximately 10 minutes.
So, what was your methodology? Under what conditions here in Elroy did you base this figure?
It seems like this may have been some kind of worst-case scenario based on filling and emptying the lot with a capacity crowd under current road conditions and no remedial traffic flow provisions in place. The news media isn’t painting it that way, but is that the case?
Thanks very much for your time and for your service to Travis County!
[--------]
If I hear anything I'll let y'all know.
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ViperHorn
1000+ posts
09/10/10 07:58 PM
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It will be interesting to see how he spins "We pulled it out of our a**!
MC: Willie, do you remember your first performance?
Willie: Hell, I don’t remember the one I just finished!
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ViperHorn
1000+ posts
09/12/10 02:16 PM
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As discussed above, the politicians (city, county, state and tollway authority) have started up on Tavo. From my experience of participating in the management of large events, here are some ideas as to the issues facing Tavo. I hope this all makes sense to everyone without a map. I started to work off a map, but got lazy (plus I have a funding request being reviewed this week that I have to revise by midnight so those who count can present it in Monaco Monday morning.)
Water, Sewer and Solid Waste
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Fairly easy, the water lines are already being positioned. This is more an issue for the research/office park than the track. However, Tavo will be responsible for implementing (i.e. paying for) the work within the track.
Storm Drains
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Again, Tavo will have to build retention pools and all of the drainage within the track area. The county will have to provide the offsite connections (and will attempt to hold Tavo hostage for as long as they can).
Electricity/Communications (telephone, cell phone and internet)
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The only break Tavo will get. These providers will do all improvements to distribute their service throughout the property. Kicker will be the hook-up charges for the telephone and internet.
Parking
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The issue is the parking requirements, not who will pay as this is all for Tavo’s account. The issue for Tavo is how much permanent (i.e. concrete) v. temporary (Tavo says not field which means to me some type of pavestone). The outlying issue is environmental as the tree huggers will want as little concrete as possible.
Anyway, the typical parking space is 9x18 (counting half the driveway). For an estimated 100,000 spectators Tavo will probably have to show around 1 vehicle for every 2 fans (have to account for all of the service and team vehicles). 50,000 spaces equates to almost 200 acres of the facility devoted just to parking.
This will be a big ticket issue, but lately several stadiums have been able to fund parking by establishing “parking companies” and issuing revenue bonds to cover the parking cost. Red’s people should be all over this.
Roads
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The contentious issue due to cost. At issue (and what will be argued) is public funding for what will be a commercial enterprise. I will go road by road. Unless otherwise specified the number of lanes means the total number – so 4 lanes means 2 in each direction, etc..
FM 812
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-- A minimum of 4 lanes from 183 all the way to Highway 21
-- The part between 130 and Elroy 6 lanes divided (see below for the reason)
McAngus
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-- A minimum of 4 lanes from 973 all the way through the property
-- Make a direct connection with 812 at 973
-- Go under new 130 service roads
-- Residents/tenants on Bacon Strip, Towery and Vega will have to be accommodated
-- This will be the road for the service vehicles (shuttles, media, team vehicles) so somewhere there will be a security checkpoint.
130
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-- Build 6 lanes of service road between 812 and Elroy
Elroy
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-- A minimum of 4 lanes from 183 all the way around to 812
-- The part between 130 and 812 6 lanes divided (see below for the reason)
Fagerquist/Wolf
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-- A minimum of 4 lanes from Elroy to Highway 21
Circulation
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Keys:
-- Keep service vehicles and the fans separated.
-- One-way traffic around the perimeter. With the divided perimeter roads divided, the inside lanes can be used for the immediate entry into the property with the outside lanes being allowed to keep moving (the whole key to parking). As those in the outside lanes near their entry point they will move over to the inside lanes. Keep the pattern throughout the event. (Some traffic engineers will say different entry and exit directions. This isn’t the best as it confuses everyone. Learning one way is the easiest.)
-- All employees park off property and are bused in. Not only takes vehicles off the perimeter roads, but it helps with employee security.
The above is just a small part of what has to be accomplished before the race – which is why every day lost now only compounds the timeline issues.
One interesting note: only certified law enforcement personnel can direct traffic on public roads in the State of Texas. The Central Texas law enforcement community is going to be big winners in these events. (However it also means that if you see a guy in the road with just a flag and no uniform, blow past him as he has no police powers.)
MC: Willie, do you remember your first performance?
Willie: Hell, I don’t remember the one I just finished!
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mandingo
5000+ posts
09/12/10 05:01 PM
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See? I told y'all...
Awesomer.
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