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Monahorns
500+ posts
09/09/11 09:26 PM
Re: Let's All Be Possibilians [re: Perham1]

Yes. Jesus didn't die from his wounds. Sounds plausible. Jesus was whipped with a cat of nine tails 39 times. 40 was the death penalty. Then he carried the cross down a road until he couldn't anymore. Then he was nailed through hands and feet (or wrist and ankles). Then he hung for 6 hours on a cross which caused him to suffocate. All the while Roman guards were there to make sure no one helped to leave him to die. One stabbed him in the ribs just before taking him down. Then he was left for 3 days in a cave with a huge stone covering the entrance. And Roman guards made sure he didn't somehow get out. Sure he survived.

It is a popular thing to say that Jesus was Buddhist. I wonder if people who claim that understand what Buddhism teaches. Is it anything like he taught? Jesus taught that the Jewish law was to be fulfilled. He taught that he himself was the fulfill of the law. Also Buddhism teaches detachment, from family, from friends, from anything in life. Jesus wept for the death of his friends, showed compassion to the poor, taught of the oneness he felt for His father and his disciples. The man was clearly not a Buddhist in any way shape or form.

The wise men (and not 3) were technically magi. That doesn't mean Buddhist monks. It means something specific. Magi were the learned men from Babylon. They studied the science, language, and Babylonian religion. 568 years before Jesus was born there was a man named Daniel who believed in the God of the Bible. He was the top wise man in Babylon. He told them the day which the Jewish Messiah would enter Jerusalem within a couple of days. They must have been looking for some kind of sign that the Messiah was born. God gave them a sign so they came. They weren't Buddhist. They were Babylonian.

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Dionysus
5000+ posts
09/11/11 01:42 PM
Re: Let's All Be Possibilians [re: Perham1]

Those who were hung on a cross didnít die usually for several days unless their legs were broken, which would cause suffocation. Jesus may have appeared dead but could have been clinically still living when he was taken to the tomb. Also, Joseph of Arimathea treated Jesus with aloes, which are healing herbs, not embalming.

The story of bodily ascension doesnít appear in the original gospels. The ascension references in Mark were added 200 years later. Thereís one reference in Luke but this doesnít appear in all bibles, and no mention of ascension to heaven at all in Matthew or John.

If Jesus escaped he likely would have traveled east, away from the heart of the Roman Empire. We know that the disciple Thomas went to India and founded a Christian church there.

In Buddhist tradition, when a Lama dies the wise men consult the stars and other omens to try and find the reincarnated infant. When the child is found heís taken from his parents and educated in the Buddhist faith.

The teachings of Jesus have no parallels in the Jewish tradition. Loving your enemies and the idea that the meek will inherit the earth are consistent with Buddhism. And Buddhist detachment does not equate to an unfeeling or uncaring nature, but rather to a disengagement with the suffering associated with things through our thoughts about them.

Stories of the Buddha include walking on water and feeding his disciples with only a small amount of food. The theory of Jesus as a Buddhist is actually very compelling, especially considering the undocumented years of his life.

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Monahorns
500+ posts
09/11/11 04:48 PM
Re: Let's All Be Possibilians [re: Perham1]

Dion,

In reply to:

Those who were hung on a cross didnít die usually for several days unless their legs were broken, which would cause suffocation. Jesus may have appeared dead but could have been clinically still living when he was taken to the tomb. Also, Joseph of Arimathea treated Jesus with aloes, which are healing herbs, not embalming




Mark 15:43-44
43 Joseph of Arimathea came, a prominent member of the Council, who himself was waiting for the kingdom of God; and he gathered up courage and went in before Pilate, and asked for the body of Jesus. 44 Pilate wondered if He was dead by this time, and summoning the centurion, he questioned him as to whether He was already dead. 45 And ascertaining this from the centurion, he granted the body to Joseph.

John 19:31-34
In reply to:

31 Then the Jews, because it was the day of preparation, so that the bodies would not remain on the cross on the Sabbath ([o]for that Sabbath was a high day), asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. 32 So the soldiers came, and broke the legs of the first man and of the other who was crucified with Him; 33 but coming to Jesus, when they saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs. 34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out.




These 2 passages contradict the assertions you are making. First, the guard assured Pilate that Jesus was dead. This is also seen in John where the guard sees that Jesus is dead. Then for good measure stabs him.. Further, Jesus was laid in a tomb and a large stone was rolled over the entrance. Also, guards were put in charge of watching the tomb. Even if I grant you that Jesus was alive when first put in the tomb, he was then left in a tomb for 3 days with no food or water. Also, remember that Jesus had been whipped 39 times, which wasn't normal for those crucified. Jesus would have died from loss of blood and dehydration. But of course he was already dead as described in every gospel. It is a ludicrous assertion to say he wasn't. That leads into your next point. about Joseph bring healing not embalming herbs. Read below.

John 19:38-42
38 After these things Joseph of Arimathea, being a disciple of Jesus, but a secret one for fear of the Jews, asked Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus; and Pilate granted permission. So he came and took away His body. 39 Nicodemus, who had first come to Him by night, also came, bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about a hundred pounds weight. 40 So they took the body of Jesus and bound it in linen wrappings with the spices, as is the burial custom of the Jews. 41 Now in the place where He was crucified there was a garden, and in the garden a new tomb in which no one had yet been laid. 42 Therefore because of the Jewish day of preparation, since the tomb was nearby, they laid Jesus there.

First, you or the video you watched is wrong. Joseph didn't bring the aloe. It was Nicodemus. Then you missed a huge point. It wasn't just aloe. It was myrrh too, which was commonly used to prepare dead bodies at the time. If you still aren't convinced, John says that they prepared Jesus according to the burial custom of the Jews. It is pretty clear. Jesus was dead.


Mark's mention of the ascension is questionable. I agree. However, could you tell me in what Bible Luke's account of the ascension is left out? Luke mentions it both in his gospel and Acts 1. There are no Bibles I have ever seen that do not contain it. This doesn't seem like much of a point.


In reply to:

If Jesus escaped he likely would have traveled east, away from the heart of the Roman Empire. We know that the disciple Thomas went to India and founded a Christian church there.




Going East would make sense if he could have survived 39 lashes, crucifixion, and a stab wound to the ribs. Then roll away a rock by his own strength. Doesn't sound like it has any basis in fact though. Especially if you take into account that Thomas had to go to India to start a church. Wouldn't Jesus have been able to do that? He started a pretty important church in Jerusalem Himself.


In reply to:

In Buddhist tradition, when a Lama dies the wise men consult the stars and other omens to try and find the reincarnated infant. When the child is found heís taken from his parents and educated in the Buddhist faith.




You watched that King of the Hill episode too? It's irrelevant to the discussion here though. The magi found Jesus but they did not take him. They left Him with His parents. The only thing we see Him learning in the NT is Judaism in the temple. He amazes people with His proficiency and answers. We have actual documentation for that. We have none for Him learning Buddhism.

You also totally ignored my explanation of who magi were. There aren't Buddhist. They're Babylonian. "Wisemen" isn't a generic term here it is very specific. I also explained briefly why the magi would have been looking for Jesus' birth. They knew about the Messiah from Daniel's legacy. They even knew the time period in which to look. You can speculate from silence or you can use history.

In reply to:

The teachings of Jesus have no parallels in the Jewish tradition. Loving your enemies and the idea that the meek will inherit the earth are consistent with Buddhism. And Buddhist detachment does not equate to an unfeeling or uncaring nature, but rather to a disengagement with the suffering associated with things through our thoughts about them.




Oh yeah? I like how you pick 2 things out of many. Go back and read Matthew 5 and 6. Scholars consider it an OT sermon. You say that the meek inheriting the earth is not Jewish, but it does say that God exalts the humble and is opposed to the proud. So Jesus' teaching is a fufillment or continuation of the Jewish teaching. He shed additional light on it. Strike 1. Loving your enemies isn't in the OT? Well, they the other thing it wasn't put in those words but God did expect Israel to love its enemies. I can give you the example of Jonah. God told Jonah to preach to Nineveh so that they would repent and be saved. Nineveh was enemies of Israel. They ended up conquering the Northern 10 tribes. I could also give you the example of David. He showed love to Saul who was trying to kill him because he knew that God didn't want him to attack back. There is also the example of the exiles of Judah. God tells them to seek the welfare of the land where they end up. These were definitely their enemies. That's just off the top of my head. Now Jesus codified the thought and taught it more explicitly but those ideas were not foreign to the Jews.

About Buddhist detachment, I have read things that actually say just that. Detachment from ones family is one way to disengage from the pain of losing them. I have seen it first hand in my cousin who was following Buddhism. It was used by Japan in WW2 to convince soldiers to be kamikaze. I have read Buddist mantras that seem to be teaching that very thing.


In reply to:

Stories of the Buddha include walking on water and feeding his disciples with only a small amount of food. The theory of Jesus as a Buddhist is actually very compelling, especially considering the undocumented years of his life.




I am not surprised that there are similarities. I wouldn't be surprised if the stories to which you refer were applied to Buddha after Jesus. Not saying they are though. Either way that does nothing to prove your point. Thinking that Jesus was Buddhist is only compelling if you don't know the Bible very well.

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