GT WT
1000+ posts
04/10/12 07:22 AM
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The Intelligent Designer ain't a nice guy
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In 'The Edge of Evolution' arch-creationist Michael Behe makes the following observation:
In reply to:
Here’s something to ponder long and hard: Malaria was intentionally designed. The molecular machinery with which the parasite invades red blood cells is an exquisitely purposeful arrangement of parts. C-Eve’s children died in her arms partly because an intelligent agent deliberately made malaria, or at least something very similar to it. (p. 237)
He's right, of course. Intelligent design has disturbing implications concerning the nature of God. Under this paradigm God becomes the deity 'red in tooth and claw'. Under intelligent design God is no longer the loving father. Instead He's an evil old thing that employs parasites and disease as His agents of devine will.
"Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. "
Martin Luther
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LongJohn
250+ posts
04/11/12 11:59 AM
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Re: The Intelligent Designer ain't a nice guy
[re: GT WT] |
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whatever
Don't ask a man where he's from. If he's from Texas he'll tell you, if he's not, don't embarrass him.
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Monahorns
500+ posts
04/11/12 07:27 PM
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Re: The Intelligent Designer ain't a nice guy
[re: GT WT] |
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GTWT, your objections aren't an issue for Biblical theology. Genesis 1-3 explains all the issues you raise.
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GT WT
1000+ posts
04/12/12 06:34 AM
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Re: The Intelligent Designer ain't a nice guy
[re: GT WT] |
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In reply to:
GTWT, your objections aren't an issue for Biblical theology. Genesis 1-3 explains all the issues you raise.
Including how an omniscient, omnipotent God designed the malaria parasite? Blame it on Eve if you want but remember that God created Eve and from the beginning knew damn good and well that she would bite the apple. Eve was just an instrument of God's will. An all-knowing Intelligent Designer has to take responsibility for the evil He designs.
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"Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. "
Martin Luther
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Perham1
5000+ posts
04/12/12 12:17 PM
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Re: The Intelligent Designer ain't a nice guy
[re: GT WT] |
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In reply to:
Under intelligent design God is no longer the loving father.
But we don't even have to invoke ID to cast aside the notion that the Christian god is a loving father.
Just look at the Hebrew bible, what the Christians call their "Old Testament". God outright murdered thousands, if not millions of people, many of whom were innocent.
The flood? It wiped out the entire earth's inhabitants save for Noah and his kin/friends. Or maybe just kin.
Destroying Sodom and Gomorrah?
The OT Christian god was a veritable killing machine. How he got bastardized into this schizophrenic "loving father" passeth all understanding.
I am Nucky Thompson and I approve this message.
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NEWDOC2002
2500+ posts
04/12/12 12:29 PM
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Re: The Intelligent Designer ain't a nice guy
[re: GT WT] |
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In reply to:
many of whom were innocent.
The most glaring part of your ignorance of the Christian and Jewish faiths.
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GT WT
1000+ posts
04/12/12 01:31 PM
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Re: The Intelligent Designer ain't a nice guy
[re: GT WT] |
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In reply to:
The most glaring part of your ignorance of the Christian and Jewish faiths.
If you wiped out the children of Sodom you would be considered a genocidal monster. Why should God be considered anything less?
"Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. "
Martin Luther
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Uninformed
10,000+ posts
04/12/12 03:20 PM
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Re: The Intelligent Designer ain't a nice guy
[re: GT WT] |
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Perhaps a better question is why you feel the need to disrespect people?
Hookem
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GT WT
1000+ posts
04/12/12 05:43 PM
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Who, exactly, have I disrespected?
"Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. "
Martin Luther
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Perham1
5000+ posts
04/13/12 09:53 AM
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Re: The Intelligent Designer ain't a nice guy
[re: GT WT] |
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Christians have a profound disconnect when it comes to realistically assessing the actions of their god, or gods. They just gloss over it.
Using their own text clearly shows the killing tendencies of their god.
I am Nucky Thompson and I approve this message.
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Uninformed
10,000+ posts
04/13/12 03:03 PM
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Re: The Intelligent Designer ain't a nice guy
[re: GT WT] |
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In reply to:
Christians have a profound disconnect when it comes to realistically assessing the actions of their god, or gods.
What the hell are you talking about? I am about as far from an expert as you can get, and I can tell you know a lot less than me.
In reply to:
Who, exactly, have I disrespected?
About all monotheists and those like myself who get annoyed at people like you who start verbal altercations and then act startled when someone confronts you.
Hookem
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ProdigalHorn
1000+ posts
04/13/12 09:42 PM
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Re: The Intelligent Designer ain't a nice guy
[re: GT WT] |
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In reply to:
If you wiped out the children of Sodom you would be considered a genocidal monster. Why should God be considered anything less?
I would say you'll eventually have the opportunity to take that issue up with God. Until that time, you have the choice to either believe that God ultimately has the right to act as He sees fit, or you don't.
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GT WT
1000+ posts
04/14/12 08:30 AM
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In reply to:
I would say you'll eventually have the opportunity to take that issue up with God.
So you believe.
Until that time, you have the choice to either believe that God ultimately has the right to act as He sees fit, or you don't.
Being omnipotent, He has the ability to behave any way He wants. Being sentient, I have the responsibility to judge that God's behavior. I find His behavior, as described in the Bible, sickening.
"Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. "
Martin Luther
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NEWDOC2002
2500+ posts
04/15/12 07:12 AM
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Re: The Intelligent Designer ain't a nice guy
[re: GT WT] |
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Once again, a West Mall type poster comes onto Quacks to inflame rather than discuss. It's rather disingenuous.
You and I know there are multiple web based resources to answer your objections/claims.
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GT WT
1000+ posts
04/16/12 06:09 AM
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In reply to:
Once again, a West Mall type poster comes onto Quacks to inflame rather than discuss.
The most exciting thread on Quacks concerns whether delaying kindergarten is a bad idea. A little inflammation here might be a good thing.
In the meantime, not one of the Christian brothers and sisters on Quacks has addressed the question of whether intelligent design raises the issue of theodicy. I miss Coelacanth. He at least knew what the word meant.
"Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding. "
Martin Luther
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Uninformed
10,000+ posts
04/17/12 08:06 AM
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Re: The Intelligent Designer ain't a nice guy
[re: GT WT] |
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An indirect approach would have probably been better, something like 'Which philosophy do you believe, an eye for an eye or two wrongs don't make a right? How do you think God chooses which philosophy to follow?"
Hookem
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Trusted Insider
250+ posts
04/17/12 02:14 PM
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Re: The Intelligent Designer ain't a nice guy
[re: GT WT] |
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In reply to:
An all-knowing Intelligent Designer has to take responsibility for the evil He designs.
The problem I see here is that even if you concede your point you are left with God existing.
"I agree that you think that" - Aaron P. Simpson
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omnipresent
1000+ posts
04/17/12 04:12 PM
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Re: The Intelligent Designer ain't a nice guy
[re: GT WT] |
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Insider drops the dynamite - nice!
How ironic is it the same people who shove global warming down our throats also believe two particles were able to come together by chance out in the vast universe and created everything you see today. And, THEY'RE the ones who think we are crazy for believing in God, much less Jesus Christ
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Gadfly
1000+ posts
04/17/12 07:23 PM
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Re: The Intelligent Designer ain't a nice guy
[re: GT WT] |
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In reply to:
think we are crazy for believing in God, much less Jesus Christ
You choose to not believe in hundreds of Gods. The atheist only chooses to add one more to the list.
(I wish I could remember who I heard that from, so I could credit them)
To the OP, I've heard better arguments against ID. I don’t find this one particularly compelling because it is couched in the morality of a God.
A Christian can’t judge the morality of the Christain God. I agree the God of the Old Testament seems dreadfully cruel. For example, we haven't even discussed the moral implication of Yahweh hardening pharaoh’s heart so the first born children of Egypt could be murdered in the night. However, Christian belief prevents objective retrospection on God's morality. They believe their understanding of “Good” and “Evil” is limited, so no understanding can be complete. If God did it, it must be good - else He wouldn't have done it. That’s a key aspect of faith based reasoning - it was good because God said so.
We’re also talking about the Jewish version of this God. Both use the story of Job to give guidance on the futility of such judgments. You are asking a Christian to make a judgment he believes is futile. To my knowledge, the Passover is not as detailed in the third major Abrahamic religion. If anyone has any experience in the Islamic version of Passover, I hope they’ll share it.
As far as teaching ID in the public classroom, I think that’s been decided (?). Private schools are free to do as they wish; no ID in public. I did find the theory compelling at first, but I’ve yet to see an ID theory floated that hasn’t been eviscerated by science. ID is now a moving target, so every idea proven wrong scientifically is changed or recreated anew. I still think it’s an interesting theory, but one that has yet to show any scientific merit.
It's very difficult to prove an ID theory wrong. You have to know a lot of biology. It's very easy to prove the other competing theory wrong. You simply need to find a modern day animal in a level of the earth (or use Carbon dating) where it shouldn't be. Only one, in the entire earth, of these finds would call into question all the conclusions made by Darwin's theory.
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Trusted Insider
250+ posts
04/18/12 08:05 AM
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Re: The Intelligent Designer ain't a nice guy
[re: Gadfly] |
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In reply to:
For example, we haven't even discussed the moral implication of Yahweh hardening pharaoh’s heart so the first born children of Egypt could be murdered in the night.
You should just throw it all out. If you use examples from the Bible to argue that God isn't good and can prove it by a verse here or there then what do you do with say, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6)? As it stands, your argument would seem to be that there is a God and you just don't like Him.
In reply to:
ID is now a moving target, so every idea proven wrong scientifically is changed or recreated anew.
Couldn't the same be said for just about any theory? I'm not saying one thing or the other about ID just pointing out that most theories adapt over time.
"I agree that you think that" - Aaron P. Simpson
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