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Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)   Rate thread Print Thread
Shark4
1000+ posts
03/23/09 01:43 PM
America's Ignorance of Her Heroes

In reply to:

During a recent commercial flight from Jacksonville (Fla.) to Baltimore, a flight attendant offered free drink coupons to any of the 150 passengers who could name just one of the five Medal of Honor recipients from the wars in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Awkward moments of silence followed until one man, Navy veteran Dale Shelton of Annapolis, Maryland, spoke up and named Army Sgt. 1st Class Paul R. Smith. Shelton was correct: Smith received the award posthumously in 2005 for his actions during the April 2003 battle for Baghdad airport. No other passenger was able to name a recipient.

The flight attendant then asked the passengers to name an American Idol winner. “The cabin lit up like a pinball machine as 43 passengers scrambled to push their attendant call button,” according to a piece by the American Forces Press Service. “Passengers named various Idol winners.” The flight attendant then announced there would not be any free drink coupons for that answer, adding that naming an American Idol winner was not worth a drink.

Good for the flight attendant. Shame on the passengers and what their ignorance says about our greater society For the record, the other four Medal of Honor recipients – all of whom, like Smith, received the award posthumously for post-9/11 actions – are Marine Cpl. Jason Dunham (for actions in April 2004), Navy SEAL Lt. Michael Murphy (June 2005), Navy SEAL Petty Officer 2nd Class Michael Monsoor (Sept. 2006), and Army Spc. Ross McGinnis (Dec. 2006).




Could you have named one? Sadly, I could only name Michael Monsoor, having read his story. I could make some comments on how the MSM has been culpable in our ignorance but I won't. I just wanted to see that these names are remembered and honored.

Hand Salute!




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Shark4
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bozo_casanova
10,000+ posts
03/23/09 01:51 PM
Re: America's Ignorance of Her Heroes [re: Shark4]

They should make people take a loyalty oath before they can board.




BC


BC -Your "smooth-talking condescension" is a gift you use effectively.
-Washparkhorn

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DigglerontheHoof
2500+ posts
03/23/09 02:03 PM
Re: America's Ignorance of Her Heroes [re: Shark4]

I wouldn't have been able to answer either question.

I'm somewhat embarrassed I can't name one MOH winner, but very proud I can't name any Idol winner since Kelly Clarkson.




"No matter how many late-game, pile-it-on points Bloodthirsty Bob's Sooners scored in recent weeks (a total of 38 in the last half of the last quarter of the past two games, against Oklahoma State and Missouri), they can't erase Texas 45, Oklahoma 35."

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huisache
1000+ posts
03/23/09 02:51 PM
Re: America's Ignorance of Her Heroes [re: Shark4]

Never have watched American Idol so I would have drawn a blank there too.

For heroes I could name two on my block who go to work everyday at more than one mindnumbing job so they can put their kids through school.

Tell the flight attendant to get a job where he/she does something besides trying to show people up. He/she's a cocktail waitress or peanut distributor and could be driving a truck in afghanistan.

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Beau Vine
2500+ posts
03/23/09 04:05 PM
Re: America's Ignorance of Her Heroes [re: Shark4]


No kidding, this American Idol hero worship just pisses me off and makes me fear for the future of our country. Kelly Clarkson a hero? GMAFB. Do you know who the real heroes are? The guys who wake up every morning and go into their normal jobs, and get a distress call from the commissioner, and take off their glasses and change into capes, and fly around fighting crime. Those are the real heroes.

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Summerof79
2500+ posts
03/23/09 04:16 PM
Re: America's Ignorance of Her Heroes [re: Shark4]

Not a a surprise really because this was the very first war ever where the citizens were not asked to make any sacrifice at all. The flag draped caskets of fallen heroes were something to be hidden from the American Public. So to me it's not a surprise at all.

Now if the folks on the plane had been talking about War heroes in Afghanistan and Iraq, expressing outrage that nobody knew the names of the fallen heroes then couldn't name them that would be really bad. Sadly the heroes went largely unnoticed because of the unpopularity of the wars and the unpopularity of the War President presenting the honors.

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Texas_Rocks
2500+ posts
03/23/09 04:17 PM
Re: America's Ignorance of Her Heroes [re: Shark4]

In reply to:

The flight attendant then asked the passengers to name an American Idol winner. “The cabin lit up like a pinball machine as 43 passengers scrambled to push their attendant call button,” according to a piece by the American Forces Press Service. “Passengers named various Idol winners.” The flight attendant then announced there would not be any free drink coupons for that answer, adding that naming an American Idol winner was not worth a drink.




Something about this almost leads me to believe that this is a fabricated story.

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Shark4
1000+ posts
03/23/09 04:38 PM
Re: America's Ignorance of Her Heroes [re: Shark4]

Medal of Honor citation

The President of the United States in the name of The Congress takes pride in presenting the MEDAL OF HONOR posthumously to

MASTER AT ARMS SECOND CLASS, SEA, AIR and LAND
MICHAEL A. MONSOOR
UNITED STATES NAVY

For service as set forth in the following CITATION:

For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while serving as Automatic Weapons Gunner for Naval Special Warfare Task Group Arabian Peninsula, in support of Operation IRAQI FREEDOM on 29 September 2006.As a member of a combined SEAL and Iraqi Army sniper overwatch element, tasked with providing early warning and stand-off protection from a rooftop in an insurgent-held sector of Ar Ramadi, Iraq, Petty Officer Monsoor distinguished himself by his exceptional bravery in the face of grave danger. In the early morning, insurgents prepared to execute a coordinated attack by reconnoitering the area around the element's position. Element snipers thwarted the enemy's initial attempt by eliminating two insurgents. The enemy continued to assault the element, engaging them with a rocket-propelled grenade and small arms fire. As enemy activity increased, Petty Officer Monsoor took position with his machine gun between two teammates on an outcropping of the roof. While the SEALs vigilantly watched for enemy activity, an insurgent threw a hand grenade from an unseen location, which bounced off Petty Officer Monsoor's chest and landed in front of him. Although only he could have escaped the blast, Petty Officer Monsoor chose instead to protect his teammates. Instantly and without regard for his own safety, he threw himself onto the grenade to absorb the force of the explosion with his body, saving the lives of his two teammates. By his undaunted courage, fighting spirit, and unwavering devotion to duty in the face of certain death, Petty Officer Monsoor gallantly gave his life for his country, thereby reflecting great credit upon himself and upholding the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.




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Shark4
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Shark4
1000+ posts
03/23/09 04:43 PM
Re: America's Ignorance of Her Heroes [re: Shark4]

Medal of Honor citation
Medal of Honor

For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty:

Sergeant First Class Paul R. Smith distinguished himself by acts of gallantry and intrepidity above and beyond the call of duty in action with an armed enemy near Baghdad International Airport, Baghdad, Iraq on April 4, 2003. On that day, Sergeant First Class Smith was engaged in the construction of a prisoner of war holding area when his Task Force was violently attacked by a company-sized enemy force. Realizing the vulnerability of over 100 soldiers, Sergeant First Class Smith quickly organized a hasty defense consisting of two platoons of soldiers, one Bradley Fighting Vehicle and three armored personnel carriers. As the fight developed, Sergeant First Class Smith braved hostile enemy fire to personally engage the enemy with hand grenades and anti-tank weapons, and organized the evacuation of three wounded soldiers from an armored personnel carrier struck by a rocket propelled grenade and a 60 mm mortar round. Fearing the enemy would overrun their defenses, Sergeant First Class Smith moved under withering enemy fire to man a .50 caliber machine gun mounted on a damaged armored personnel carrier. In total disregard for his own life, he maintained his exposed position in order to engage the attacking enemy force. During this action, he was mortally wounded. His courageous actions helped defeat the enemy attack, and resulted in as many as 50 enemy soldiers killed, while allowing the safe withdrawal of numerous wounded soldiers. Sergeant First Class Smith's extraordinary heroism and uncommon valor are in keeping with the highest traditions of the military service and reflect great credit upon himself, the Third Infantry Division 'Rock of the Marne,' and the United States Army.





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Shark4
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Shark4
1000+ posts
03/23/09 04:57 PM
Re: America's Ignorance of Her Heroes [re: Shark4]

The President of the United States in the name of The Congress takes pride in presenting the MEDAL OF HONOR posthumously to

LIEUTENANT MICHAEL P. MURPHY
UNITED STATES NAVY

For service as set forth in the following CITATION:

For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life and above and beyond the call of duty as the leader of a special reconnaissance element with Naval Special Warfare task unit Afghanistan on 27 and 28 June 2005. While leading a mission to locate a high-level anti-coalition militia leader, Lieutenant Murphy demonstrated extraordinary heroism in the face of grave danger in the vicinity of Asadabad, Konar Province, Afghanistan. On 28 June 2005, operating in an extremely rugged enemy-controlled area, Lieutenant Murphy's team was discovered by anti-coalition militia sympathizers, who revealed their position to Taliban fighters. As a result, between 30 and 40 enemy fighters besieged his four member team. Demonstrating exceptional resolve, Lieutenant Murphy valiantly led his men in engaging the large enemy force. The ensuing fierce firefight resulted in numerous enemy casualties, as well as the wounding of all four members of the team. Ignoring his own wounds and demonstrating exceptional composure, Lieutenant Murphy continued to lead and encourage his men. When the primary communicator fell mortally wounded, Lieutenant Murphy repeatedly attempted to call for assistance for his beleaguered teammates. Realizing the impossibility of communicating in the extreme terrain, and in the face of almost certain death, he fought his way into open terrain to gain a better position to transmit a call. This deliberate, heroic act deprived him of cover, exposing him to direct enemy fire. Finally achieving contact with his headquarters, Lieutenant Murphy maintained his exposed position while he provided his location and requested immediate support for his team. In his final act of bravery, he continued to engage the enemy until he was mortally wounded, gallantly giving his life for his country and for the cause of freedom. By his selfless leadership, Lieutenant Murphy reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the United States Naval Service.




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Shark4
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Shark4
1000+ posts
03/23/09 05:01 PM
Re: America's Ignorance of Her Heroes [re: Shark4]

Medal of Honor citation

For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty:

Private First Class Ross A. McGinnis distinguished himself by acts of gallantry and intrepidity above and beyond the call of duty while serving as an M2 .50-caliber Machine Gunner, 1st Platoon, C Company, 1st Battalion, 26th Infantry Regiment, in connection with combat operations against an armed enemy in Adhamiyah, Northeast Baghdad, Iraq, on December 4, 2006.
President George Bush presents the Medal of Honor to the parents of Ross McGinnis

That afternoon his platoon was conducting combat control operations in an effort to reduce and control sectarian violence in the area. While Private McGinnis was manning the M2 .50-caliber Machine Gun, a fragmentation grenade thrown by an insurgent fell through the gunner's hatch into the vehicle. Reacting quickly, he yelled "grenade," allowing all four members of his crew to prepare for the grenade's blast. Then, rather than leaping from the gunner's hatch to safety, Private McGinnis made the courageous decision to protect his crew. In a selfless act of bravery, in which he was mortally wounded, Private McGinnis covered the live grenade, pinning it between his body and the vehicle and absorbing most of the explosion.
Private McGinnis' gallant action directly saved four men from certain serious injury or death. Private First Class McGinnis' extraordinary heroism and selflessness at the cost of his own life, above and beyond the call of duty, are in keeping with the highest traditions of the military service and reflect great credit upon himself, his unit, and the United States Army.




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Shark4
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Shark4
1000+ posts
03/23/09 05:06 PM
Re: America's Ignorance of Her Heroes [re: Shark4]

Medal of Honor citation

The President of the United States in the name of The Congress takes pride in presenting the MEDAL OF HONOR posthumously to

CORPORAL
JASON L. DUNHAM
UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS

For service as set forth in the following CITATION:

For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while serving as Rifle Squad Leader, 4th Platoon, Company K, Third Battalion, Seventh Marines (Reinforced), Regimental Combat Team 7, First Marine Division (Reinforced), on 14 April 2004. Corporal Dunham's squad was conducting a reconnaissance mission in the town of Karabilah, Iraq, when they heard rocket-propelled grenade and small arms fire erupt approximately two kilometers to the west. Corporal Dunham led his Combined Anti-Armor Team towards the engagement to provide fire support to their Battalion Commander's convoy, which had been ambushed as it was traveling to Camp Husaybah. As Corporal Dunham and his Marines advanced, they quickly began to receive enemy fire. Corporal Dunham ordered his squad to dismount their vehicles and led one of his fire teams on foot several blocks south of the ambushed convoy. Discovering seven Iraqi vehicles in a column attempting to depart, Corporal Dunham and his team stopped the vehicles to search them for weapons. As they approached the vehicles, an insurgent leaped out and attacked Corporal Dunham. Corporal Dunham wrestled the insurgent to the ground and in the ensuing struggle saw the insurgent release a grenade. Corporal Dunham immediately alerted his fellow Marines to the threat. Aware of the imminent danger and without hesitation, Corporal Dunham covered the grenade with his helmet and body, bearing the brunt of the explosion and shielding his Marines from the blast. In an ultimate and selfless act of bravery in which he was mortally wounded, he saved the lives of at least two fellow Marines. By his undaunted courage, intrepid fighting spirit, and unwavering devotion to duty, Corporal Dunham gallantly gave his life for his country, thereby reflecting great credit upon himself and upholding the highest traditions of the Marine Corps and the United States Naval Service.




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Shark4
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groverat
5000+ posts
03/23/09 05:35 PM
Re: America's Ignorance of Her Heroes [re: Shark4]

That didn't happen.

In reply to:

Something about this almost leads me to believe that this is a fabricated story.




Like "I went down to the local skating park and to talk to the youths" sermons, this is clear [censored].

And just like with sermons, the fact that real anecdotes are insufficient shows more about how asinine the lesson is supposed to be than whatever the fabricator originally intended.





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Shark4
1000+ posts
03/23/09 05:56 PM
Re: America's Ignorance of Her Heroes [re: groverat]

In reply to:

That didn't happen.




Is that an opinion or can you substantiate the claim?

Here is the author's bio:

W. Thomas Smith, Jr's Biography

W. Thomas Smith Jr. is the author of six books, and his articles have appeared in USA TODAY, George, U.S. News & World Report, BusinessWeek, National Review Online (NRO), CBS News, and The Washington Times. A former U.S. Marine infantry leader, parachutist, and shipboard counterterrorism instructor, Smith writes about military/defense issues and has covered conflict in the Balkans, on the West Bank, in Iraq and Lebanon. He has served on the adjunct faculty at the University of South Carolinas School of Journalism, and he is a military technical consultant for The New Technology of War, a documentary film series produced by Popular Mechanics magazine. Smith is director of the Counterterrorism Research Center of the Family Security Foundation, a contributing editor with NavySEALs.com, and a former executive editor of World Defense Review. He is one of the founding writers for NRO's The Tank. Visit W. Thomas Smith Jr. online at uswriter.com

Now, you may think he would put his professional credibility, even his livelihood, on the line by faking the incident but I don't. At the moment his credentials trump yours.




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Shark4
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Edited by Shark4 (03/23/09 06:43 PM)

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Sangre NaranjadaSponsor
10,000+ posts
03/23/09 07:30 PM
Re: America's Ignorance of Her Heroes [re: Shark4]

Shark,
I say don't bother. There are people on this board who are going to attack your story and ignore the thrust of the argument that as a nation, we place our priorities in ALL of the wrong places.

But that's their prerogative, and it's what the men and women in the Armed Forces fight to protect. You can't shove an appreciation for true honor down a person's throat. They have to come to it on their own terms.

I for one, appreciate the hell out of you posting the citations for each of the Medal of Honor winners. Thank you.




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Texas_Rocks
2500+ posts
03/23/09 07:41 PM
Re: America's Ignorance of Her Heroes [re: Shark4]

That's does it for me, shark.

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Seattle Husker
5000+ posts
03/23/09 08:18 PM
Re: America's Ignorance of Her Heroes [re: Sangre Naranjada]

Isn't is possible to agree with the thrust of the story even if you believe it's contrived? I'd agree we often have our priorities in the wrong place but I also don't buy the story as it fits the author's audience too well. For me the bio doesn't reinforce the credibility of the author but actually reinforces my belief it's fabricated. The story is just ambiguous to be unverifiable and the Flight attendant would likely be reprimanded (and rightfully) for her treatment of the airline passengers, customers of the airline.

Now, if the author had prefaced the story as a parable he wouldn't be open for criticism.

This is coming from a former US Army Member who rolled off the inactive reserve list about 8yrs ago.




"It ain't where I've been fat boy, it's where I'm going."-Tommie Frazier, late in the 3rd quarter in response to repeated smack talking by Warren Sapp in the '95 Orange Bowl.

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Whitman Mayo
2004 Omaha Sweepstakes Champion
03/23/09 08:31 PM
Re: America's Ignorance of Her Heroes [re: Seattle Husker]

The story, while sadly very plausible in terms of the passengers response, sounds like some forwarded email. Why don't they name the airline or have direct quotes or name the Flight Attendant?

I look for this to come up lame in a few weeks on Snopes.

BTW, here is the first reference of the story I could find
The Link

I assume this is where the Author heard/read the "story."

Fake or not, the point being made certainly is valid/sad.






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Sangre NaranjadaSponsor
10,000+ posts
03/23/09 08:38 PM
Re: America's Ignorance of Her Heroes [re: Shark4]

In reply to:

Isn't is possible to agree with the thrust of the story even if you believe it's contrived?


Of course, and this is precisely where I stand. I figure the story is apocryphal, but the point behind it is valid. And when it's followed up with the citations for each of the MoH winners, well, I simply don't care to argue the veracity of the original post.




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Seattle Husker
5000+ posts
03/23/09 08:41 PM
Re: America's Ignorance of Her Heroes [re: Sangre Naranjada]

In reply to:

Of course, and this is precisely where I stand. I figure the story is apocryphal, but the point behind it is valid. And when it's followed up with the citations for each of the MoH winners, well, I simply don't care to argue the veracity of the original post.




On that we can agree...even if I did argue it's veracity.




"It ain't where I've been fat boy, it's where I'm going."-Tommie Frazier, late in the 3rd quarter in response to repeated smack talking by Warren Sapp in the '95 Orange Bowl.

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