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Pages in this thread: 1 | 2 | 3 | (show all)   Rate thread Print Thread
buckhorn
2500+ posts
03/28/12 01:45 PM
Re: Spike Lee.... [re: majorwhiteapples]

In reply to:

My problem, from the beginning, is that I feel the energy expended by the race baiters, NBBP, and even the President is better served going after the hundreds of "Trayvons" that are killed, somewhat anonymously each week by the cycle of violence.




The outrage in this case has to do with power relations that, when reflected through the lens of a inter-racial murder, trigger many reactions and world views, each threatened and aroused by their own values, etc. These are world views held by large demographic groups rather than localized people plugged into the daily events of a particular area. On some level this is a historical issue, one that floats about fundamental principles of social, cultural, and political structures in our society. In short, alot of people have a dog in this fight.

The type of murder that occurs when someone gets killed collaterally during a 'drive by,' to use a stereotypical picture, does not necessarily elicit broad responses because it is more localized, though no less tragic. Those murders are also as a matter of course less political. You should also consider that such killings in lower economic sectors involve people that are surveilled a great deal, people that are living in areas that get alot of law enforcement attention. It is not as if they are unattended by the system. When a cop shoots an unarmed kid in these areas the power relations aspect rears up and the political machinery whirs into action.

This 'case' did not become charged with race issues because of the actions of a few people. It is charged with race as a matter of its structure. It was going to arouse such responses as soon as it became known to the broader public. Given the apparently shoddy work of the police department it is appropriate that the case came to public scrutiny. From there the race stuff is a natural trailer.

I think that the outrage and ire that comes from the right when race gets included is a bit odd, especially when that ire is accompanied by absurd pronouncements that the case has nothing to do with race. I suppose that one way of looking at it is that including race complicates the situation with issues that surround being considered a racist, which carries pariah status while also opening the door for federal involvement, something that is philosophically and, at this point, almost culturally anathema to the right when social issues are involved. Noting the racial implications of a given dispute can be a power play, but the notion that blacks are all too sensitive to race or are led around by the nose by 'race baiters' is over simplistic, wrong-headed, and somewhat insulting.

By the by, Spike Lee is not a particularly deep or careful thinker about these kinds of things. He makes a common mistake, which is to believe that his outrage and perceptions of injustice give him leeway to do things he would otherwise recognize as being wrong. One of those things is maintaining a paranoid and antagonistic view of 'whites' as an undefined group that he sometimes plugs individuals into. He does this in part as a result of thinking that his blackness is a particular thing at its core, a thing that is in conflict with whiteness due to injustice, stupidity, and a number of other things that are hard to see as something other than wrong. He is often an essentialist thinker, and that kind of thinking is often ugly.

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dheiman
500+ posts
03/28/12 02:00 PM
Re: Spike Lee.... [re: majorwhiteapples]

It really is sad. And that was just a quick search of the greater Chicago area.

In support of the other posters. The statistics for being killed by your own race are ridiculously in your favor, or rather against you I should say. That goes for whites too.

From 1976 to 2005 --
86% of white victims were killed by whites
94% of black victims were killed by blacks
(source FBI homicide reports)

Actually the individual numbers are terrifying.
84% of workplace murder victims are white
61% of drug related murder victims are black
80% of poison murder victims are white
51% of gun murder victims are black
Interestingly enough only 12% of workplace victims are black by far the lowest category. Hell I'd just stay in my office and play the odds.

STATS




Life's certainties: Death, Taxes and OU sucks.

Get your gear at choke-lahoma.com

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I35
2500+ posts
03/28/12 02:07 PM
Re: Spike Lee.... [re: majorwhiteapples]

dheiman,

What are the actual number not in percentage? I'm interested to see how many victims there are killed by their own race.

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dheiman
500+ posts
03/28/12 02:20 PM
Re: Spike Lee.... [re: majorwhiteapples]

In reply to:

What are the actual number not in percentage? I'm interested to see how many victims there are killed by their own race.




35, the numbers supplied by the feds are percentages only so I can't help but there are some interesting facts.
Surprisingly, the numbers come out to be roughly 50/50 in total homicides. Noteworthy since the percentage of black population is more like 13-18% Also keep in mind the defined categories are simply White, Black, Other.

ALL HOMICIDES - Offenders
White: 46%
Black: 52%
Other: 2%

ALL HOMICIDES - Victims
White: 51%
Black: 47%
Other: 1%





Life's certainties: Death, Taxes and OU sucks.

Get your gear at choke-lahoma.com

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IvanDiabloHorn
250+ posts
03/28/12 02:29 PM
Re: Spike Lee.... [re: majorwhiteapples]

Does that mean Zimmerman is part of the 2%??

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buckhorn
2500+ posts
03/28/12 02:38 PM
Re: Spike Lee.... [re: majorwhiteapples]

Drug war. That is something that helps to foment violence in neighborhoods where there are fewer jobs and higher incarceration rates, which makes more and more people hard to employ. The drug war needs to be stopped. The numbers look alot different if you check back before the drug war.

It has always been that murder within the race is much more common that inter-racial murder.

They should have a table that also splits hispanics off from whites. When race is used as the marker hispanics get dumped in with whites as latin is seen as an ethnicity.

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dheiman
500+ posts
03/28/12 02:40 PM
Re: Spike Lee.... [re: majorwhiteapples]

In reply to:

Does that mean Zimmerman is part of the 2%??




I thought only agies were 2%ers




Life's certainties: Death, Taxes and OU sucks.

Get your gear at choke-lahoma.com

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majorwhiteapples
5000+ posts
03/28/12 03:17 PM
Re: Spike Lee.... [re: majorwhiteapples]

Stop the Drug war, I agree but how?

I think it starts in the schools.

Buckhorn: I assume you are talking about the more rundown or ghetto type neighborhoods.

Those schools need to be overhauled. Not really sure how to do it but a no screw up policy.

Basically, you would have the school everyone starts at, then as kids make mistakes, they get put in a seperate school. Basically, creating an elite school where kids are safe and free from the drug/gang wars that ultimately happen.
Make the school an all day affair, 9am-6pm, keeping them out of trouble and off the streets as much as possible.

Make one mistake and you get put in the other school that is more about discipline, you can earn your way back to the elite school but it will not be easy. Make the elite school a badge of honor.

Just a thought off the top of my head.........

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IvanDiabloHorn
250+ posts
03/28/12 03:39 PM
Re: Spike Lee.... [re: majorwhiteapples]

Unfortunately, nothing will change until the families of the kids changes. We can't raise them in school, they have to have parents that care before the kids care. I can tell you that my kids were never (and would never be) suspended 3 times in one year for drug paraphenalia, tardiness/absenteeism and graffiti, or get away without an explaination of why a screwdriver and jewelry was found in his back pack.

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buckhorn
2500+ posts
03/28/12 03:48 PM
Re: Spike Lee.... [re: majorwhiteapples]

In reply to:

Stop the Drug war, I agree but how?




Legalize. Stop treating certain kinds of drug use as criminal. It's has been a disaster.

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dheiman
500+ posts
03/28/12 03:49 PM
Re: Spike Lee.... [re: majorwhiteapples]

In reply to:

nothing will change until the families of the kids changes. We can't raise them in school




That might be the truest statement I have read all day.




Life's certainties: Death, Taxes and OU sucks.

Get your gear at choke-lahoma.com

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ShinerTX
1000+ posts
03/28/12 04:42 PM
Re: Spike Lee.... [re: majorwhiteapples]

Agree with Diable. I cannot help but think that this kid's demise could be tied to his parent's divorce. It would sure explain why a good kid starts to be a troubled kid. I mean, hanging out at your dad's girlfriend's house is a little weird, or it would have been for me when I was 17, and my Mom was deceased. So he goes out to the store to get out of that house, and sadly he never made it back.

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theiioftx
500+ posts
03/28/12 05:02 PM
Re: Spike Lee.... [re: majorwhiteapples]

Will anyone on the Left denounce it publicly? Will any call the return "black power" racist?

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buckhorn
2500+ posts
03/28/12 07:51 PM
Re: Spike Lee.... [re: majorwhiteapples]

In reply to:

I cannot help but think that this kid's demise could be tied to his parent's divorce. It would sure explain why a good kid starts to be a troubled kid. I mean, hanging out at your dad's girlfriend's house is a little weird, or it would have been for me when I was 17, and my Mom was deceased. So he goes out to the store to get out of that house, and sadly he never made it back.




Wow. There is a gap of size between divorce causing issues and getting shot while going to the store for Skittles and iced tea. Size.

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l00pSponsor
25,000+ posts
03/28/12 10:09 PM
Re: Spike Lee.... [re: majorwhiteapples]

Not really if his point is what I read out of it. He could have been a really good kid who stayed out of trouble, played sports and was indeed the portrait of what many have in their minds, spoon fed from the media.

Many kids act out when their parents get divorced. It depends on the kid and circumstances. Some close up, others act out violently or do things with people they would not normally have sought out to hang with.

So what I read him saying is that as a possible result of his parents divorce he may be troubled, acting out and inclined to doing things or acting in ways he may not have just a couple of years ago. Such as, possibly approaching the man idiotically following (after ditching him and seeing him retreat to his vehicle) and asking if he had a problem. When told no, to possibly go off on him and give a beat down.

That, if it happened that way as reported, may be something that never in a million years a younger Trayvon would have done. That's what I got out of it. I don't see it as the divorce caused it.




Is that fair?

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msdw24
2500+ posts
03/28/12 10:23 PM
Re: Spike Lee.... [re: majorwhiteapples]

In reply to:

Will anyone on the Left denounce it publicly?


Of course not, because they don't think it's wrong. Just read Satch's posts. The tone of them indicate he would have no problem with Spike doing what he did or the bounty the black panthers put on zimmerman.




that dude would/could eat 40 boiled eggs just to do it, he crazy fresh, stupid cool, or whatever the term for a badass nowadays is. (GHOST HORN)

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RomaVicta
10,000+ posts
03/28/12 11:49 PM
Re: Spike Lee.... [re: Horn6721]

In reply to:

Which post did you read on this thread that you think suggests the poster thought someone other than Lee was responsibile for Lee's action?




Read the above posts. Why is anyone obliged to say anything about Lee's actions? It is clear that some want to associate this with whatever they think "the left" is. Since "the left" hasn't rallied en masse to support Lee's actions, now "the left" will be found at fault for not publicly decrying Lee.

The usual drivel about the ebil libs.

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majorwhiteapples
5000+ posts
03/29/12 10:28 AM
Re: Spike Lee.... [re: majorwhiteapples]

Buck:

I am not a proponent of Legalizing drugs, but I will hear it out.

Let me play a little devil's advocate....

One of the reasons that I would be against legalizing marijuana is:

People honestly think they can function on it......I have gone to school with people in HS and College that would get stoned before going to class and think they could function or even some of them thought they could function better.

Honestly?

So when you say legalize Marijuana, that is very broad, like prescription drugs? Cigarettes? Liquor? Beer Wine? Amsterdam Coffee Houses? What do you mean by legalize?

My workplace tests for drugs and alchol(sp), would I get fired for having Marijuana in my system, it takes what 30 days for that to run it's natural course?

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I35
2500+ posts
03/29/12 11:15 AM
Re: Spike Lee.... [re: majorwhiteapples]

Move this post to other topic.

Edited by I35 (03/29/12 11:19 AM)

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Michtex
2500+ posts
03/29/12 11:18 AM
Re: Spike Lee.... [re: I35]

In reply to:

Martin has character issues so why is it hard to believe from people like Satch or Deez that he was the aggressor?




Zimmerman has in his background assaulting a policeman and domestic violence against his ex-fiance. You seem to be ignoring those ahem, character issues.

Edited by Michtex (03/29/12 11:24 AM)

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